Pigments 5 redundant if i have Falcon 3 and VPS Avenger?

[Alexander_D]

I was sold my Pigments 5 (and all of Arturia stuff as well). It's a nice synth but for.me it's sounds simple ok. Like a plastic... I don't use it so much honestly. Always when I open it and design something it's sounds not OK for me...

[DrGonzo]

It may just come down to workflow.

Right - the instrument you feel like working in is the one you most likely will be working in. That being said, as much as I like Pigments, its VA/synth engine is not sounding as good as the one in Avenger. Making a great bass takes a couple of minutes in Avenger/Diva/Repro. Making a great bass in Pigments takes much more work and balancing.

My biggest wish for future versions of Pigments is that they would bring in the synth engines from their synth collection lineup. That would make Pigments in a class of its own.

But yeah. Workflow is extremely important.

/Carl

[DCrown]

Buy them all. You can't compare them, they are very different. Soundwise Pigments is the worst, I would describe it as cheap plastic sound, but sometimes that's just what you want . You don't want a hammond organ in each song, do you?!

[zerocrossing]

Making a great bass in Pigments takes much more work and balancing.

I think that is hogwash.

My biggest wish for future versions of Pigments is that they would bring in the synth engines from their synth collection lineup. That would make Pigments in a class of its own.

It does include the SEM V, Matrix-12 V, Mini V, and Jup-8 V filter emulations.

Sometimes I feel like people tried the first versions of Pigments, which did have a pretty clean character, and then made their opinion, but Pigments has changed quite a bit since v1. Anyway, no need to change your mind, but I think it’s pretty silly to think you can’t get a good, raw sounding bass out of it, or really any synth sound.

[IvyBirds]

It may just come down to workflow.

Right - the instrument you feel like working in is the one you most likely will be working in. That being said, as much as I like Pigments, its VA/synth engine is not sounding as good as the one in Avenger. Making a great bass takes a couple of minutes in Avenger/Diva/Repro. Making a great bass in Pigments takes much more work and balancing.

My biggest wish for future versions of Pigments is that they would bring in the synth engines from their synth collection lineup. That would make Pigments in a class of its own.

But yeah. Workflow is extremely important.

/Carl

In all fairness with Pigments, Avenger, Falcon and other similar instruments like Omnisphere and HALion while you can make analog style VA bass patches, it's really more about using multiple Synthesis types to create layered complex sounds

With all of them if you want to focus on a singular synthesis type it's rather easy to find another plugin that will do it better

Want Wavetables? All of them do Wavetables but there are deeper Wavetable based instruments. Want sampling? Same thing. VA? Same thing. Granular? Same thing. Additive or FM? Same thing

Want to make a sound that layers a sample, with a Wavetable, with some VA? That's where these shine

I own all of them currently with the exception of avenger. Honestly none of them would be my first choice for a VA bass sound. For that I would go for Diva or one of the many plugins I have that are emulations of vintage analogs

Having said that all of them can easily make awesome VA sounds, and Pigments has a ton of filter models available from their vintage emulations as well.

The variety of filters is a stand out feature of Pigments for sure

[DrGonzo]

Making a great bass in Pigments takes much more work and balancing.

I think that is hogwash.

I don't know Zero. Maybe it's my personal taste, but that's my experience. I've created thousands of bass sounds for Pigments, Diva, Omnisphere and Repro - and Pigments is one that I have to work much harder with.

My biggest wish for future versions of Pigments is that they would bring in the synth engines from their synth collection lineup. That would make Pigments in a class of its own.

It does include the SEM V, Matrix-12 V, Mini V, and Jup-8 V filter emulations.

I should have been more detailed there. I was thinking about the oscillator section. The filters in Pigments are excellent.

[Jac459]

I'm not trying to convert anyone to my perspective, but I never really felt Avenger and Pigments share a niche as closely as the frequent comparisons would suggest. Avenger has more bells and whistles and more flexibility in the number of oscillators filters, modulators, effects, routing options and so on. It's closer to Phase Plant than Pigments IMO, with Pigments and Current being more comparable to one another.

A lot of people say they like the Pigments UI and not so much the Avenger one, so that's a facet I understand. I wish I loved Pigments UI as much as everyone else seems to. It's prettier than Avenger but Avenger always felt more intuitive to me as it's very smartly designed. Current too, for that matter.

I actually agree 100% with all your points. Including your feeling on avenger and pigment UI.

I also agree that my comparison was a bit far stretched lol.

[a9k1tp]

I would always keep myself away from companies which leans heavily towards marketing.

[dune_rave]

i was in a similar case and sold all my arturia stuff.

[Razzia]

I'm not trying to convert anyone to my perspective, but I never really felt Avenger and Pigments share a niche as closely as the frequent comparisons would suggest. Avenger has more bells and whistles and more flexibility in the number of oscillators filters, modulators, effects, routing options and so on. It's closer to Phase Plant than Pigments IMO, with Pigments and Current being more comparable to one another.

A lot of people say they like the Pigments UI and not so much the Avenger one, so that's a facet I understand. I wish I loved Pigments UI as much as everyone else seems to. It's prettier than Avenger but Avenger always felt more intuitive to me as it's very smartly designed. Current too, for that matter.

I actually agree 100% with all your points. Including your feeling on avenger and pigment UI.

I also agree that my comparison was a bit far stretched lol.

Oh I wasn't singling out you or your comment at all. I read on here for years that the Pigments UI is great and Avenger's is mediocre. Aesthetically I guess I get it but functionally and intuitively I think Avenger's UI is a homerun. My only real complaint is I wish I could close the preset browser and use the space for something else.

I do think Avenger's UI, because it looks familiar and more or less typical, is responsible for why it doesn't seem to get as much recognition as Pigments, Phase Plant, Serum, and so on. If Pigments is a sporty muscle car, Avenger is a Batmobile masquerading as a Hummer.

[Jac459]

I'm not trying to convert anyone to my perspective, but I never really felt Avenger and Pigments share a niche as closely as the frequent comparisons would suggest. Avenger has more bells and whistles and more flexibility in the number of oscillators filters, modulators, effects, routing options and so on. It's closer to Phase Plant than Pigments IMO, with Pigments and Current being more comparable to one another.

A lot of people say they like the Pigments UI and not so much the Avenger one, so that's a facet I understand. I wish I loved Pigments UI as much as everyone else seems to. It's prettier than Avenger but Avenger always felt more intuitive to me as it's very smartly designed. Current too, for that matter.

I actually agree 100% with all your points. Including your feeling on avenger and pigment UI.

I also agree that my comparison was a bit far stretched lol.

Oh I wasn't singling out you or your comment at all. I read on here for years that the Pigments UI is great and Avenger's is mediocre. Aesthetically I guess I get it but functionally and intuitively I think Avenger's UI is a homerun. My only real complaint is I wish I could close the preset browser and use the space for something else.

I do think Avenger's UI, because it looks familiar and more or less typical, is responsible for why it doesn't seem to get as much recognition as Pigments, Phase Plant, Serum, and so on. If Pigments is a sporty muscle car, Avenger is a Batmobile masquerading as a Hummer.

I feel exactly the same on the UI. The v1 was difficult to read but the v2 is just practical and makes sense. And the fun we don't get in the UI, we get in the features and power.

I was referring on me comparing Avengers with Serum or Pigments, in terms of raw power, you are right, it is more a phase plant. Even if pigments did improve a lot (Arturia is by the way a great company with excellent support of their products).

But even if I prefer Arturia as a company than Vengeance, Avengers is on another league in terms of power. Just the "modifiers" for the oscillators are so good and sounds so awesome. Vital was excellent on that, Current is an improvement over Vital, but Avenger is way ahead...

[zerocrossing]

Making a great bass in Pigments takes much more work and balancing.

I think that is hogwash.

I don't know Zero. Maybe it's my personal taste, but that's my experience. I've created thousands of bass sounds for Pigments, Diva, Omnisphere and Repro - and Pigments is one that I have to work much harder with.

My biggest wish for future versions of Pigments is that they would bring in the synth engines from their synth collection lineup. That would make Pigments in a class of its own.

It does include the SEM V, Matrix-12 V, Mini V, and Jup-8 V filter emulations.

I should have been more detailed there. I was thinking about the oscillator section. The filters in Pigments are excellent.

Well, it’s not marketed or designed as a Diva style plugin, and if that’s what you’re after, of course there are better choices. It’s a digital or hybrid style instrument and maybe you just don’t like it, but I’ve never really found it unsuited to provide bass or any other type of sound, though it’s a lot of synth just to get a basic bass sound and I’m more likely to choose a simpler plugin for a simpler sound.

[pandafish]

I do think that the Arturia preset banks are less wet by default than something like Falcon, where almost every preset has Sparkverb, color compression, and a maximizer on top. Preset surfing probably contributes to the frequent complaint that Pigments sounds “flat” or “boring”.

[Tj Shredder]

I would vote for Pigments alone for its MPE friendliness. In Falcon it needs a script to implement MPE into a sound, which sometimes clashes with another script. Does Avenger support MPE? As far as I know it doesn’t. Its on sale now also, I am wondering if its worth it, having Halion, Pigments and Falcon already… I guess not, as it does not support MPE!

[zahush76]

I would vote for Pigments alone for its MPE friendliness. In Falcon it needs a script to implement MPE into a sound, which sometimes clashes with another script. Does Avenger support MPE? As far as I know it doesn’t. Its on sale now also, I am wondering if its worth it, having Halion, Pigments and Falcon already… I guess not, as it does not support MPE!

That is - if MPE is important to you. I never had an MPE controller nor do i plan on having one in the future.
Other than that, having also Falcon i would say Avenger is a whole lot quicker, laid out more logically, extremely versatile and deep - yet in a way which let's you get very complex very fast (as opposed to Falcon that sometimes leaves me scratching my head).
The osc section alone and how you can totally twist an oscillator is worth it. Superb filters, very flexible envelopes and lfos, blazing fast to program arp and step sequencers, top notch fx. I can not recommend it enough