Future of CM instruments?

[martinjuenke]

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[MrJubbly]

CLAP doesn't have a long term track record like VST has, and it's not supported by a lot of DAWs

Only because CLAP is the newer format and so naturally, hasn't been around for as as long as VST3 has (I'm willing to bet CLAP support will outlive VST3 support).

The current adoption rate of CLAP support from third parties and DAWs is already much faster than it was for VST3. So a fairly safe prediction that CLAP will continue to increase its current support into the future.

As for DAW support, CLAP is currently supported by: Bitwig, Reaper, FL Studio and Studio One. The only major (non-proprietary format) DAW remaining is Ableton Live. Which will undoubtedly follow.

Companies can easily abandon it [CLAP] at any time and just not bother with it

You mean, like when Steinberg decided to discontinue VST? That's the reason why CLAP was created to begin with. To prevent the same issues from recurring again in the future, when Steinberg inevitably decide to discontinue VST3 for a future VST4 replacement.

It's not really accurate at all to say that CLAP has any longevity, it might but then again it might not, in any case it's a riskier move compared with VST

There's no risk.

And if you're a Cubase user, there's no threat. You'll still get your VST3 versions. It's just that the rest of us will be using CLAP instead.

I predict CLAP will begin to overtake VST3 as the primary industry standard audio plugin format within the next few years. Especially once JUCE v9 (with native CLAP support) is released. From that point onwards, VST3 support will become largely a "legacy" format to many users whose DAWs do support CLAP.

[IvyBirds]

The current adoption rate of CLAP support from third parties and DAWs is already much faster than it was for VST3. So a fairly safe prediction that CLAP will continue to increase its current support into the future.

Why would it? If you are company who is interested in supporting it you already do, when U-he kills off the cash cow and stops making VST3 instruments get back to me, but it's telling that the company that created CLAP hasn't gone all in

As for DAW support, CLAP is currently supported by: Bitwig, Reaper, FL Studio and Studio One. The only major (non-proprietary format) DAW remaining is Ableton Live. Which will undoubtedly follow.

You forgot Protools, Cubase, and Logic. There is no need to dismiss any of them as being "proprietary" because they are all extremely popular DAW, there are also several other DAWs that are not as popular as those but still have large user bases like Acid Pro. You are also skipping over all the Video Production tools that use VST but not CLAP. I get that it doesn't fit your narrative but can we at least be honest?

Companies can easily abandon it [CLAP] at any time and just not bother with it

You mean, like when Steinberg decided to discontinue VST? That's the reason why CLAP was created to begin with. To prevent the same issues from recurring again in the future, when Steinberg inevitably decide to discontinue VST3 for a future VST4 replacement.

So why hasn't U-he dropped support for VST3 then and gone all in on clap?

There's no risk.

And if you're a Cubase user, there's no threat. You'll still get your VST3 versions. It's just that the rest of us will be using CLAP instead.

I predict CLAP will begin to overtake VST3 as the primary industry standard audio plugin format within the next few years. Especially once JUCE v9 (with native CLAP support) is released. From that point onwards, VST3 support will become largely a "legacy" format to many users whose DAWs do support CLAP.

There is significant risk to CLAP, as it only exists currently because it's not VST3. It's minimally adopted and is not the universal industry standard

When your only reason for existing is because you are not something else which is what you claimed and the vast majority of users has no issue with the other product that's an issue

If VST3 was such a problem and CLAP was so awesome then it's high time for the people who created it to go all in and only support it.

[BBFG#]

Push broom creation team.
A single hair is enough to begin...

[MrJubbly]

You forgot Protools, Cubase, and Logic. There is no need to dismiss any of them as being "proprietary" because they are all extremely popular DAW, there are also several other DAWs that are not as popular as those but still have large user bases like Acid Pro. You are also skipping over all the Video Production tools that use VST but not CLAP. I get that it doesn't fit your narrative but can we at least be honest?

I forgot nothing. Everything was accounted for previously.

So why hasn't U-he dropped support for VST3 then and gone all in on clap?

Because those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

There is significant risk to CLAP, as it only exists currently because it's not VST3. It's minimally adopted and is not the universal industry standard

When your only reason for existing is because you are not something else which is what you claimed and the vast majority of users has no issue with the other product that's an issue

If VST3 was such a problem and CLAP was so awesome then it's high time for the people who created it to go all in and only support it.

Developers like u-he and Fabfilter don't need to go any more "all in" (as you seem fond of stating) than simply to offer customers available CLAP releases of their entire product line. Which both developers do. And I should know, since I've been using exclusively CLAP formats of all their plugins in all of my projects, for almost a year now (especially, Fabfilter) and that will continue.

I don't need either developer to drop VST3 right now (any more than saying they should drop AAX)/ Simply because I and other CLAP users may no longer have need for VST3. I will simply continue to just install their CLAP formats instead.

Legacy format support and backwards-compatibility is also important for many people, so it's good to still include VST3 and I would expect them to continue to in future updates for many years to come, until Steinberg decides to discontinue that format just like it did for VST.

The latest u-he product releases, which include CLAP format releases for their entire product line are also their last to also include the "discontinued" VST format. All future u-he updates will no longer include that Steinberg-discontinued format. CLAP is the offered solution for when the same thing happens in future for VST3, and that format also is discontinued by Steinberg, CLAP will continue and still be going strong. And by that time, almost certainly will have become universally-supported as the new industry plugin standard.

[aanano]

Man oh man - you kids are way off topic.
I can see uhe making zebracm sounds available for zebra legacy cause I think they work in it. But idk if bazille will?
Dunecm seems like it's the only way to keep some of us interested cause the demo runs out too fast. Fantom? I kinda expected them to fade away by now anyway.

[MrJubbly]

Man oh man - you kids are way off topic.
I can see uhe making zebracm sounds available for zebra legacy cause I think they work in it. But idk if bazille will?
Dunecm seems like it's the only way to keep some of us interested cause the demo runs out too fast. Fantom? I kinda expected them to fade away by now anyway.

Damn! You're not wrong.

Apologies to everyone about that. Sometimes I just directly answer the last person quoting me in my notifications and don't realize what the actual topic was originally supposed to be. Sorry everyone.

Back on topic then ... RIP CM, you were great in your day and shall be missed.

[IvyBirds]

The latest u-he product releases, which include CLAP format releases for their entire product line are also their last to also include the "discontinued" VST format. All future u-he updates will no longer include that Steinberg-discontinued format. CLAP is the offered solution for when the same thing happens in future for VST3, and that format also is discontinued by Steinberg, CLAP will continue and still be going strong. And by that time, almost certainly will have become universally-supported as the new industry plugin standard.

Of course VST came out in 1996, and VST2 came out in 1999.

You might be shocked to hear this but VST2 is a 26 year old format and Computers and DAWs and Virtual instruments have improved dramatically since then

I would think 26 years for any computer format is a pretty good run

But tell me please are you still using Windows 98 SE, or Mac OS9 with Power PC chips for your main music productios? And if not why? I mean you think 26 year old software should still be the industry standard after all

Steinberg supported VST2 for 26 years. It's a relic from the past, but again that doesn't support the narrative you are trying to present that Steinberg just dropped support of it without notice after a tiny bit of time

Like most things Computer VST3 provides enhancements over VST2, including better CPU management, multiple dynamic inputs and outputs for mono, stereo, and surround sound formats, better support for automation and remote control from DAWs and other devices, and the ability to have multiple MIDI inputs and outputs

It should be noted that VST3 has been around for a long time also and has been the industry standard format for a long time. That support will continue for long into the future.

If we are honest there is not really any reason for developers to continue to develop plugins in a 26 year old format when there are better alternatives

I would be all over CLAP if it held any advantages, but it just doesn't. It's sole purpose for it's existence as you have noted is that it's not VST2, awesome. Using CLAP means you are limited as a majority of DAWs don't use the format, and a vast majority of plugin developers don't support it, but again that doesn't support your narrative

I love U-he and own all their plugins, in VST3 format. If Urs wants to drop support for an obsolete 26 year old standard, awesome there is no need for VST2 anyway in 2025 and hasn't been for many years.

He still supports and sells VST3 however in all his plugins

Of course I still can run any VST2 plugin if I want to and will be able to long into the future. It's not like they turned into a pumpkin at midnight or anything

I upgraded to Cubase 13 the day it came out a few months ago, it still loads and runs VST2 plugins just fine. I could even run 32 bit VST2 inside of it if I wanted to

That's right despite your false narrative 26 year old 32 Bit VST2 plugins can still be launched and run inside of Cubase 13 the newest version of Cubase made by Steinberg if I so desire, the thing is however I don't

Bringing this back on topic to this thread that includes all the old VST2 CDs and DVDs I got with Computer Music magazines over the years

That's what I call a long term history of support

[aanano]

Can't understand how you have so many instruments and waste your time here like you do instead.
Thread locked!