Whoa! New Fractal Axe software!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Just wait for this friday for an awesome modded Plexi. It wont be iLok and its not profiles/captures, and certainly not $300

But is it a hardware amp head? That's what I'm interested in buying.

[metalifuxx]

Just wait for this friday for an awesome modded Plexi. It wont be iLok and its not profiles/captures, and certainly not $300

But is it a hardware amp head? That's what I'm interested in buying.

Oh I see, you meant hardware real amp. No, ampsim(s) plugin. Not singular, plus an awesome amp that I think has only been modeled one time, well maybe twice if you count this new Fractal plugin. Maybe a few other amps too.

Everyone save thier ampsim money until friday if you were thinking of buying an ampsim lately. You’re going to want this.

[TMaudio]

Any shootout I've come across, ,people end up choosing TH-U

It’s all mostly a matter of preference. I don’t like TH-U at all, or really anything from Overloud, but that’s just an opinion. There are a ton of great options now, so it’s easy to be picky and reject something for reasons that aren’t necessarily universal.

Sure, it's always a matter of preference but my point is there are definitely certain brands or types of gear by virtue of what it is are made out to be a big deal. However in the shootouts it mostly demonstrates the listeners assumption of what they think is superior is not superior necessarily, and their preference was not what they thought possibly based on heavy influences, like brand, etc. And this is IF they participate in the shootout (look at the gearslutz people).

[bmanic]

The problem with TH-U is that it all sounds quite grating and nasty very quickly. It's good/superb as long as your chain is super short.. so basically an amp+cabinet. But once you start adding pedals and stuff it very quickly goes bad, in my opinion.

Overloud has been extremely allergic to oversampling and ignored aliasing for a decade. They finally caved like 5 years ago but I suspect they don't do hardcore anti-aliasing measures within the chain unlike some other brands that seem to have a much deeper understanding of how quickly digital artifacts add up in a typical guitar chain. If there ever was a place for drastic anti-aliasing measures, it is within the guitar world.

Also, whatever method they use in TH-U for oversampling sounds quite bad to my ears. I always switch it away from the Ultra to High and instead oversample within Reaper 2x.

Anyhow, looking forward to trying the demo of the Fractal stuff. We do have an Axe FX rack at the studio (I believe it's a mk2) but I really haven't used it at all.

Speaking of hardware, I'm getting shockingly good results with my little Boss Katana:Go thing. It's absolutely mental how good this little device sounds. Anybody know if Roland ever plans on releasing the Katana ecosystem as a plugin??

[zerocrossing]

Any shootout I've come across, ,people end up choosing TH-U

It’s all mostly a matter of preference. I don’t like TH-U at all, or really anything from Overloud, but that’s just an opinion. There are a ton of great options now, so it’s easy to be picky and reject something for reasons that aren’t necessarily universal.

Sure, it's always a matter of preference but my point is there are definitely certain brands or types of gear by virtue of what it is are made out to be a big deal. However in the shootouts it mostly demonstrates the listeners assumption of what they think is superior is not superior necessarily, and their preference was not what they thought possibly based on heavy influences, like brand, etc. And this is IF they participate in the shootout (look at the gearslutz people).

True. We used to watch a show called America's Test Kitchen. The main point of the show was to pick something common, like meatloaf, try a whole bunch of popular recipes, and come to some "best" version of whatever it was. They also would take common brands of things and do blind tests, and I remember an episode where they did ketchup and the one most people picked as the best was Hunt's, not Heinz. We had a potluck dinner party where everyone brought a dish that was from a recipe from the show, and for fun I set up a bunch of the blind tests, and we also overwhelmingly picked Hunt's, though I personally picked Heinz Organic. Of course, I used McDonald's fries as the test substrate, so who knows what might have happened with different fries? As in food, context is important in music.

I used to think I hated Line6 emulations, and when I was shopping for the Fractal, I came across more than one face-off where I picked the Helix over the Fractal in a blind test. Part of why I like Amplitube so much is that I generally find it can* sound excellent, has a wide, but not overwhelming, variety of gear and is generally easy to use and is pretty flexible. It also integrates well with Tonex, which allows me access to weird stuff that no one would probably ever model. Other software is in some ways better or more consistent, but is missing things that I find important.

*not all models sound great, and many default settings sound pretty poor, but now that I know it so well, I can set it to always give me good or great results.

[whassup]

We had a potluck dinner party where everyone brought a dish that was from a recipe from the show, and for fun I set up a bunch of the blind tests, and we also overwhelmingly picked Hunt's, though I personally picked Heinz Organic. Of course, I used McDonald's fries as the test substrate, so who knows what might have happened with different fries? As in food, context is important in music.

That's dang cool!
I love me some good looking GUI as I work with stuff and look at it a lot.
But sound, man do I hate it to get fooled by bias.
Blind tests are king against that!

BTW, I was coming across a recent video by Howard Jones playing his Jupiter 8.
Dang, that machine puts to shame everything I know digitally to try to sound like that!

[billinder33]

Boss

Helix

I'm primarily a riff-rock style player, and lean toward the Mesa Mark style of amps, so my opinions on modelers are always slanted toward the expectation that it does that kind of high-gain tone. Over the years I've owned and played a most of the flagship modelers. They're all very good in their own ways:

Kemper - best feel and reactivity when playing it. Sounds amazing but the high-gain tones always sort of sounds the same.... like a Marshall, which is not my cup of tea.

Helix - the older models (pre-Agoura models) don't sound or feel like a real amp when playing them IMO. Scratchy digital-sounding highs. Worst sustain by far, notes fade very quickly even with high gain and compression. The Stadium is a big step up in sound and feel, but they haven't replaced all their amp models with the new 'Agoura' tech yet. Best user interface by far.

Quad Cortex - Best capture tech. Nearly indistinguishable from the captured amp. Early releases were a bit buggy, so I never invested in one. Great feel.

AFX3 - Best for me at this time. Kind of splits the difference between all the flagships. Not the best at any one thing but absolutely great at everything - feel, configurability, flexibility/routing, I/O, great laptop/desktop UI. Maybe not great at captures, but I have no need for that. The FX section is like having an Eventide H9000 integrated into an amp head.

Boss - Shockingly good distortion tones. I like the fact that they don't model to mimic existing amps. IMO it gives them the freedom to just build great models. I tested my pre-Agoura Helix against a friend's ancient, early-days floor unit - don't recall the model number (GT100 maybe), the kind of thing you'd find on Reverb for $250 - and in terms of sound and feel the crusty old Boss absolutely smoked the older Helix models.


The main thing I learned after owning all these is, once you record through them and place your tracks in a mix, they're mostly indistinguishable from each other and from real amps. The only one I didn't love is the older Helix, but the new Agoura models that are being slowly released sound amazing. Big step up from the legacy models.

All of these work and are legit replacements from real amps. IME, having the DSP in the computer doesn't really change things much, but I do prefer running modeler hardware through some outboard pres before it gets to the interface and just committing audio (not that interested in re-amping). But it really doesn't make a ton of difference either way.

If I ever decided get back into doing live performance, I'd probably get the Synergy modular head, load it with a pair of IICP modules, giving me 4 channels of analog Mesa Mark, and front that with a Fractal FM9 for FX and MIDI switching. Pair with a traditional 2-12" for backline and get ready to rip up the stage!!!!

[TMaudio]

Any shootout I've come across, ,people end up choosing TH-U

It’s all mostly a matter of preference. I don’t like TH-U at all, or really anything from Overloud, but that’s just an opinion. There are a ton of great options now, so it’s easy to be picky and reject something for reasons that aren’t necessarily universal.

Sure, it's always a matter of preference but my point is there are definitely certain brands or types of gear by virtue of what it is are made out to be a big deal. However in the shootouts it mostly demonstrates the listeners assumption of what they think is superior is not superior necessarily, and their preference was not what they thought possibly based on heavy influences, like brand, etc. And this is IF they participate in the shootout (look at the gearslutz people).

True. We used to watch a show called America's Test Kitchen. The main point of the show was to pick something common, like meatloaf, try a whole bunch of popular recipes, and come to some "best" version of whatever it was. They also would take common brands of things and do blind tests, and I remember an episode where they did ketchup and the one most people picked as the best was Hunt's, not Heinz. We had a potluck dinner party where everyone brought a dish that was from a recipe from the show, and for fun I set up a bunch of the blind tests, and we also overwhelmingly picked Hunt's, though I personally picked Heinz Organic. Of course, I used McDonald's fries as the test substrate, so who knows what might have happened with different fries? As in food, context is important in music.

I used to think I hated Line6 emulations, and when I was shopping for the Fractal, I came across more than one face-off where I picked the Helix over the Fractal in a blind test. Part of why I like Amplitube so much is that I generally find it can* sound excellent, has a wide, but not overwhelming, variety of gear and is generally easy to use and is pretty flexible. It also integrates well with Tonex, which allows me access to weird stuff that no one would probably ever model. Other software is in some ways better or more consistent, but is missing things that I find important.

*not all models sound great, and many default settings sound pretty poor, but now that I know it so well, I can set it to always give me good or great results.

Yes! Perfect example. I've seen a similar program with wine.

[zerocrossing]

AFX3 - Best for me at this time. Kind of splits the difference between all the flagships. Not the best at any one thing but absolutely great at everything - feel, configurability, flexibility/routing, I/O, great laptop/desktop UI. Maybe not great at captures, but I have no need for that. The FX section is like having an Eventide H9000 integrated into an amp head.

I came to basically the same conclusion, though I do think that some Helix models sound really good, I'm not sure what you're talking about with the "new" ones, but I do use Helix Native from time to time, and I can get it to sound really good. I do think that for a hardware all-in-one solution, the AxeFX still rules, for the reasons you stated. I'd love to see a plugin version, as I really don't plan on ever playing live, and I don't really need a hardware modeler.

That's why I turned to Amplitube, warts and all. One thing I forced myself to do is really dig into it, and find the warts so I know to avoid them. For instance, for high gain and clean tones, the Mesa Boogie TA-30 rules. Try to do something mid or low gain on it... sounds really weird, like there's someone playing a high gain amp in the house next door that's under your playing. Marked this as a bug and never even got a response. The IIc can sound amazing, but oddly aliases. The III, no noticeable aliasing, but I don't quite like the tone as much. So, it's like a buffet where 10% of the food isn't good, but it's a big buffet. I did a lot of A-B testing with my AxeFX III, and what I noticed was that the included speaker cabinets on the Fractal weren't that good... almost like they are lacking the character of the cabinet they're an IR of. When I replaced them with Ownhammer IRs and used the same IRs in Amplitube, I found that I liked both about the same, with some wins going to the IK, some to the Fractal. One thing the Fractal is great for is very good and usable presets, where Amplitube's presets are often super bad. I don't even understand what they're going for. Often using some EQ pedal, weird tone knob settings, and then further EQ after the amp. As in the studio, I'm a fan of "moving" the mic and knowing what mic is going to get me what I'm after, before going for some EQ effect. Of course, in a mix stage there will often be some extra EQ, but that's another story.

Another good one is the UAD Paradise modeler. Not many models, but they sound very good. I may pick it up at some point. Not too flexible, but enough for most sounds.

[metalifuxx]

The aforementioned modded Marshall sim (among 3 others) that i said was going to be released today

Wavemind ToneSuite Dave Davidson

https://wavemind.net/product/dd-amplifier-suite

Amp 1 - Blue chan of EVH 5153 with mods. Mode is Stealth to regular

Amp 2 - chan 3 of a VH4 with a Herbert mid cut feature and herbert CH2 gain boost

Amp 3 - FrankenMarshall inspired loosely by Marty Friedman's Bogner modded Marshall

Amp 4 - modded Fender Princeton

[bmanic]

I'm scared to demo the UAD Paradise Guitar Studio plugin. I fear I'll succumb to GAS.

[billinder33]

I came to basically the same conclusion, though I do think that some Helix models sound really good, I'm not sure what you're talking about with the "new" ones, but I do use Helix Native from time to time, and I can get it to sound really good. I do think that for a hardware all-in-one solution, the AxeFX still rules, for the reasons you stated. I'd love to see a plugin version, as I really don't plan on ever playing live, and I don't really need a hardware modeler.

The new Helix Stadium comes with a new modeling engine called Agoura. Check out some of the vids on the Youtubes where people compare the old and new models. After all these years, it sounds like L6 finally figured out how to model high gain amps. Probably some kind of Neural-like capture tech.

That's why I turned to Amplitube, warts and all. One thing I forced myself to do is really dig into it, and find the warts so I know to avoid them. For instance, for high gain and clean tones, the Mesa Boogie TA-30 rules. Try to do something mid or low gain on it... sounds really weird, like there's someone playing a high gain amp in the house next door that's under your playing. Marked this as a bug and never even got a response. The IIc can sound amazing, but oddly aliases. The III, no noticeable aliasing, but I don't quite like the tone as much. So, it's like a buffet where 10% of the food isn't good, but it's a big buffet. I did a lot of A-B testing with my AxeFX III, and what I noticed was that the included speaker cabinets on the Fractal weren't that good... almost like they are lacking the character of the cabinet they're an IR of. When I replaced them with Ownhammer IRs and used the same IRs in Amplitube, I found that I liked both about the same, with some wins going to the IK, some to the Fractal. One thing the Fractal is great for is very good and usable presets, where Amplitube's presets are often super bad. I don't even understand what they're going for. Often using some EQ pedal, weird tone knob settings, and then further EQ after the amp. As in the studio, I'm a fan of "moving" the mic and knowing what mic is going to get me what I'm after, before going for some EQ effect. Of course, in a mix stage there will often be some extra EQ, but that's another story.

Another good one is the UAD Paradise modeler. Not many models, but they sound very good. I may pick it up at some point. Not too flexible, but enough for most sounds.

I bought and used the Amplitube Mesa package years ago, but haven't touched in almost a decade. But your thoughts on the IK Mesas matches my memory of it. I remember them being reminiscent of the Mesa sound but all the models were a little strange/off in a way. And inconsistent from model to model, like they were created by different development teams. At a minimum the UIs have changed since then, but not sure if the modeling is any different. I just checked my license and it's showing still valid for Amplitude Max. Maybe I'll give it another shot someday.

The best sounding Mesa Mark plugin I've heard is the ML Labs ML5. Bang on emulation. Not cheap, but if I did a lot of guitar plugin work, this is the one I'd own.

[zerocrossing]

I came to basically the same conclusion, though I do think that some Helix models sound really good, I'm not sure what you're talking about with the "new" ones, but I do use Helix Native from time to time, and I can get it to sound really good. I do think that for a hardware all-in-one solution, the AxeFX still rules, for the reasons you stated. I'd love to see a plugin version, as I really don't plan on ever playing live, and I don't really need a hardware modeler.

The new Helix Stadium comes with a new modeling engine called Agoura. Check out some of the vids on the Youtubes where people compare the old and new models. After all these years, it sounds like L6 finally figured out how to model high gain amps. Probably some kind of Neural-like capture tech.

That's why I turned to Amplitube, warts and all. One thing I forced myself to do is really dig into it, and find the warts so I know to avoid them. For instance, for high gain and clean tones, the Mesa Boogie TA-30 rules. Try to do something mid or low gain on it... sounds really weird, like there's someone playing a high gain amp in the house next door that's under your playing. Marked this as a bug and never even got a response. The IIc can sound amazing, but oddly aliases. The III, no noticeable aliasing, but I don't quite like the tone as much. So, it's like a buffet where 10% of the food isn't good, but it's a big buffet. I did a lot of A-B testing with my AxeFX III, and what I noticed was that the included speaker cabinets on the Fractal weren't that good... almost like they are lacking the character of the cabinet they're an IR of. When I replaced them with Ownhammer IRs and used the same IRs in Amplitube, I found that I liked both about the same, with some wins going to the IK, some to the Fractal. One thing the Fractal is great for is very good and usable presets, where Amplitube's presets are often super bad. I don't even understand what they're going for. Often using some EQ pedal, weird tone knob settings, and then further EQ after the amp. As in the studio, I'm a fan of "moving" the mic and knowing what mic is going to get me what I'm after, before going for some EQ effect. Of course, in a mix stage there will often be some extra EQ, but that's another story.

Another good one is the UAD Paradise modeler. Not many models, but they sound very good. I may pick it up at some point. Not too flexible, but enough for most sounds.

I bought and used the Amplitube Mesa package years ago, but haven't touched in almost a decade. But your thoughts on the IK Mesas matches my memory of it. I remember them being reminiscent of the Mesa sound but all the models were a little strange/off in a way. And inconsistent from model to model, like they were created by different development teams. At a minimum the UIs have changed since then, but not sure if the modeling is any different. I just checked my license and it's showing still valid for Amplitude Max. Maybe I'll give it another shot someday.

The best sounding Mesa Mark plugin I've heard is the ML Labs ML5. Bang on emulation. Not cheap, but if I did a lot of guitar plugin work, this is the one I'd own.

I will note that a lot of times I find it's useful to either abandon the paired cabinet, or load up an IR. A lot of times I think something sounds weird and after trying out different mics and positioning, I have a totally different idea of it. I can post some of my presets. I use the Mark III as a default, as I think it sounds excellent and takes the pedal emulations really well. I've never been too much of a Rectifier guy, but I had a Mesa Studio .22 a long time ago and I still miss it. I gave it to my brother when his amp died and he never gave it back. He's a jerk.

[billinder33]

I've never been too much of a Rectifier guy, but I had a Mesa Studio .22 a long time ago and I still miss it. I gave it to my brother when his amp died and he never gave it back. He's a jerk.

Same, the overly dense, scooped sound of the Rectos never appealed to me. The beauty of the Mark lineage is their highly focused midrange. That unique 'honk' that they have. Over the years I've had the Subway Rocket, .50 Caliber, Triaxis (meh) plus Simul 2:90, and the Mark IV. Got to play the Mark JP2C at a local store and that one's just amazing. Whatever happens with Mesa now that Gibson owns it, I just hope they don't eff it up.

I loved the IV mostly for playing live, but the Subway Rocket was such a great amp for recording. A set of well positioned mics, one in front and one through the half back cab, and in a proper mix that little 10" combo could easily sound like a full stack. I really miss that little guy.

Love the .22, had a friend that owned one. Very similar to the .50 Cal You should get that back from your brother!!

[zerocrossing]

I've never been too much of a Rectifier guy, but I had a Mesa Studio .22 a long time ago and I still miss it. I gave it to my brother when his amp died and he never gave it back. He's a jerk.

Same, the overly dense, scooped sound of the Rectos never appealed to me. The beauty of the Mark lineage is their highly focused midrange. That unique 'honk' that they have. Over the years I've had the Subway Rocket, .50 Caliber, Triaxis (meh) plus Simul 2:90, and the Mark IV. Got to play the Mark JP2C at a local store and that one's just amazing. Whatever happens with Mesa now that Gibson owns it, I just hope they don't eff it up.

I loved the IV mostly for playing live, but the Subway Rocket was such a great amp for recording. A set of well positioned mics, one in front and one through the half back cab, and in a proper mix that little 10" combo could easily sound like a full stack. I really miss that little guy.

Love the .22, had a friend that owned one. Very similar to the .50 Cal You should get that back from your brother!!

I wouldn't be surprised if he sold it to buy weed or pay rent.