Comparison of guitar ampsims and effects SW

[jens]

The cleans are excellent.

That sounds promising! Cleans is what I want

Personally I can't really recommend Tonex for anything (at least when it comes to dynamic playing), least of all for clean stuff.

My suspicion is that those who swear by it use a compressor in front of their amp-sim - something I personally would never do, so take my reply with that in mind.

Fwiw MGuitarArchitect is amazing for clean tones.

(Until recently I was - for years and years - a complete Melda nay-sayer by the way.)

[Uncle E]

Personally I can't really recommend Tonex for anything (at least when it comes to dynamic playing), least of all for clean stuff.

Not saying this is you but a lot of people make the mistake of not turning down the gain, thinking all knobs at 12 o'clock is the way the capture is supposed to sound. Tonex (and presumably NAM) capture the gain at many dynamics, so turning down the gain is the same as turning down your volume control with a real tube amp.

[jens]

Personally I can't really recommend Tonex for anything (at least when it comes to dynamic playing), least of all for clean stuff.

Not saying this is you but a lot of people make the mistake of not turning down the gain, thinking all knobs at 12 o'clock is the way the capture is supposed to sound. Tonex (and presumably NAM) capture the gain at many dynamics, so turning down the gain is the same as turning down your volume control with a real tube amp.

Yeah, since dynamics are super important to me I indeed seek to make sure to properly suss out the dynamic behaviour of an amp (be it hard- or software; tube, SS or whatever). You are absolutely right in suggesting this (regadless of the amp however).

I think where I might differ from many players is that I practice (well, that's actually just me tinkering around; I don't really practize according to some schedule or whatever - no scales here) normally without any amp whatsover (i.e the electric completely unplugged) and then the job I want amps to mainly do is to amplify what I come up with. In other words: they need to feel kind of like an extension of my fingers - and some amps tend to feel/sound like gloves to me - some like relatively thin gloves and some like super thick ones - Tonex (et al) comes to mind - I hate that.

[glokraw]

I like BlueCat Axiom suite for quality of sound, wide variety of included quality effects, ability to host 3rd party favorite effects in it's chains, and some nice presets. The gui is 'busy' but with lots of options, but very symetric, so easy enough to get very functional.

I prefer Axiom to others I own and really like, A4, A5, Guitar Rig,ToneX etc. For hardware, I now have the tiny but mighty ToneX Plug, and it's cleans are delightful. And the unit will help me learn hi-gain gear as time allows. I like the ToneX android app, and have the gizmo strapped to the horn of a guitar using a homebrew extension cable, for easier access to the buttons. Dedicated headphones are always plugged in, as that connection is a common breaking point in small gear...instant gratification.

[thievedletter]

Once I got ToneX, I've barely touched, or even cared to look further. The sheer volume of options is wild. I've found a few people making really excellent stuff. Tons of great sounding oddball combo amps, of every era. It's a goldmine of tone.

[thievedletter]

Personally I can't really recommend Tonex for anything (at least when it comes to dynamic playing), least of all for clean stuff.

My suspicion is that those who swear by it use a compressor in front of their amp-sim - something I personally would never do, so take my reply with that in mind.

Fwiw MGuitarArchitect is amazing for clean tones.

(Until recently I was - for years and years - a complete Melda nay-sayer by the way.)

This is interesting to me. I've always struggled with clean in-the-box guitar tone and ToneX made me say "finally!"

I'm curious... Within ToneX, there's an input knob on the bottom left and an output on the bottom right. I basically used it for quite awhile adjusting there. More recently, I've found adjusting the input gain in the advanced panel as well as the output gain, on the same panel, gives me much more tonal control. I'm wondering if you've tried adjusting there at all?

[Nameerf]

Nowhere near as full featured as most of the aforementioned but I'm really liking the sound and feel of UAD Paradise Guitar Studio. Worth checking out for those that havent.

[Cuauhtli]

Softube's Marshalls package is on sale atm. Unless it was a weekend or 24 hour sale.

[Uncle E]

Within ToneX, there's an input knob on the bottom left and an output on the bottom right. I basically used it for quite awhile adjusting there.

Smart. I'm still turning down the gain on individual patches like a noob.

[jens]

Personally I can't really recommend Tonex for anything (at least when it comes to dynamic playing), least of all for clean stuff.

My suspicion is that those who swear by it use a compressor in front of their amp-sim - something I personally would never do, so take my reply with that in mind.

Fwiw MGuitarArchitect is amazing for clean tones.

(Until recently I was - for years and years - a complete Melda nay-sayer by the way.)

This is interesting to me. I've always struggled with clean in-the-box guitar tone and ToneX made me say "finally!"

I'm curious... Within ToneX, there's an input knob on the bottom left and an output on the bottom right. I basically used it for quite awhile adjusting there. More recently, I've found adjusting the input gain in the advanced panel as well as the output gain, on the same panel, gives me much more tonal control. I'm wondering if you've tried adjusting there at all?

No, to be honest I didn't even try the Tonex plugin yet...

I ony tried a number of models in Amplitube and found them in every way inferior to their algorithmic counterparts.

I'm willing to give Tonex another chance; albeit for trying sims out I usually control the input gain with my fingers and the volume pot, so I'm not expecting radically different results.

From a theoretical viewpoint actually Tonex doesn't make a lot of sense to me either - the experts @NI have to run their specialized neural networks on their own dedicated machines for weeks in order to come up with an adequate (to me great sounding&behaving) solution/model, while Tonex captures can happen more on the less on the fly by whoever uses their capturing software.

By the way: We know who they are and we know their method not only from their thorough explanation/description but also from their academic paper on it. This seems to me to be the real deal when it comes to neural-network aided modelling.

[griffin]

I've always read that Scuffham S Gear is great for clean and crunch sounds

[Uncle E]

No, to be honest I didn't even try the Tonex plugin yet...

I ony tried a number of models in Amplitube and found them in every way inferior to their algorithmic counterparts.

I hate the AmpliTube models. I only use AmpliTube as a host for Tonex, because it allows me to chain multiple Tonex captures (I made dedicated captures of my speakers) and use more effects.

...From a theoretical viewpoint...

...also from their academic paper...

So rock 'n roll!

[Ah_Dziz]

I almost always end up using voxengo boogex to get a guitar tone I like in a mix. I also have the amp/speaker/mic that whoever was playing brought in. Sometimes I'll use guitar rig while tracking a player especially if they want to get wacky with effects. Most of the amp speaker software usually gets replaced with the boogex. If it's a more "experimental" song I often won't use any amp sim or speaker sim at all. I'm not a player in real life so I'm not particularly attached to any hardware or how it sounds. I do enjoy piping guitar into the Leslie on my cheapo hammond organ though. That's good fun.

[Uncle E]

Scientific method requires testing your hypothesis.

[jens]

Scientific method requires testing your hypothesis.

Well, the three guys who are responsible for ICM are all deeply rooted in academics with one of them having a PHD in physics, another one a bachelor in electrical engineering plus a master in sound&music computing and the third one a PHD in signal processing, so I'm rather confident they did their due dilligence there...

but if you have good reason to think they didn't, then please go ahead and call them out on it - as academics they will certainly be grateful.

You certainly don't have the same opportunity with IKMM/Tonex - but at least they don't take anything away from your true rock'n roll experience with that lame scientific stuff, right?