Buying individual sounds

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Squids wrote:
But, where this thread relates to us, I can say this. I like the idea of individual purchase sounds. Maybe some day we'll do it. Although our business model supports having more professional sounds in our archives than most sound companies have. We can do crazy things such as multiple workstation products and expanding lines of uniform price products in more formats from the same package than other products (like the Sonik Capsules). To do that we have to have fairly high overhead such as a large office filled with employees plus a fairly sizeable budget to travel around and record incredible musical instruments (many are from the personal collections of respected pro musicians) and all sorts of other high risk business moves.

Most of our products are sold in stores. You get incredible value for money with every SR product. If you think about what you get for a $49. refill or a $99 Sonik Capsule or even a $399. Sonik Synth 2 with 8 gigs and 5,000 sounds the VFM is hard to match... (that's $.08 a sound? ) especially when you consider the quality, diversity and usablity of the material (that missing spec that really matters the most). It takes YEARS and YEARS of sampling with access to top quality, rare and sought after instruments in top quality studios to have this.

So, we have to concentrate our efforts on where we can get our return and profit for such a large long time investment. Thankfully, people like to buy our products because they have this level of value for the money as well as more options to find the sounds you like the best (since sounds are so subjetive anyway). Granted if we were to sell something like Sonik Synth 2 piece by piece for $2 a sound I think there might be some business to be had! Maybe. But, let me ask you something. Would you rather pay $10,000 for Sonik Synth 2 (at $2 per sound) or $399? (even less with discounts from stores or upgrade/crossgrades). ;)

To cut to the chase here though, I like the idea of both individual sound sales and collections. So, you never know.
I can definitely understand the value of buying a package for $399 as opposed to $10,000 for all. As you said though, "there might be some business to be had!". Where as most may buy the $399, there are others out there that are just starting out that wouldn't want to spend $399 if they're not serious on it.. BUT, they may be inclined to buy a package or individual sounds of a lower value to see what the product is truly about. Most serious producers and digital musicians will more be inclined without financial problem to buy the $399, nor will they worry about the risks of unwanted sounds. I've learned in my making sounds that some people have preferences and some would rather just try a few sounds out to see what the hype may be about, so while the $399 is being made, even more revenue can be collected for your company with those that aren't wanting the full Sonik Synth at $399, but rather, a few sounds to make things with... who knows... those few bucks in individuals may result in a final purchase of... BAM! The Sonik Synth at $399, so you'd have say, a customer with $20 bucks worth of individuals, AND then a $399 purchase as well. Plus, you wouldn't necessarily have to make the entire Sonik Synth 2 in individual sounds as well... maybe a third of the sounds could be for a variety for people that are wanting a few sounds to fill their library. That's why I have it laid out for both individual and package soundfont purchases on my site (grant it, my sounds won't match up to yours simply because you're a corporation and I'm a solo business person). I've actually had people buy maybe 3 individuals for $6 bucks, and later come back to buy a $30 package because they liked the individuals they bought. I made a bit more for my buck than if I only sold packages. Just some food for thought. I'm sure it may cost more than it would to benefit for a corporation, not really sure of the workload it'd take to make some of them individual soundz or what not, but I do believe where you service alot of producers for the net $399, there are probably two or three others that wish your company had solo sounds also. Your company does good business, and I definitely respect the work and sounds you've done. Sonik Synth 2 looks great, although I know I won't ever get my hands on it to use. ha ha.. I can dream. Keep on with the good business though, much success to you.

Genycis
www.genycis.com
Blazin' beats and high quality soundfonts!
http://www.genycis.com Beats
http://www.SoundsForBeats.com Soundfonts/WAVs

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That gave me an idea.

Currently there's two levels:

Sonik Synth 2 FREE, about a dozen instruments, $0
Sonik Synth 2 FULL, about 5000 instruments, $399.

What about issuing a "Sonik Synth LIGHT" [1] at a $99 or $149 price-point, as a sort of "sampler" of the full SS2? It'd have maybe 150 or 200 instruments. For those with money, it'd serve as a "gateway" to SS2FULL (of course with an appropriate upgrade discount). For those without the budget for the full thing, it'd allow them to buy some SS2 at a price they can afford.

I'm still undecided about downloadable single sounds, but I suspect they might cheapen the SR brand. SR is about "lots of good sounds at good price" kind of value, not "bargain basement bin cost of a toothbrush" kind of value. Just my opinion.

Forever,




Kim.

[1] Not "LITE"! Let's promote correct spelling! :)

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For me - I love the concept of the Sonic Capsules and Expansion Tanks, where the Squidsmachine focuses on a set of instruments and releases a set filled to the brim with excellent material.

As long as this concept isn't compromised I don't care whether they offer individual sounds for download or not. :D

Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.

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I think SR addresses the individual who wants to wade in slow and get their feet wet gradually through the Capsules, Expansion Tanks and such. If I was starting out I would gladly pay less than $100 for something like OmniSynth (a GM package) which would cover the bread and butter stuff and give you a free copy of SampleTank 2 LE as well. I think back to 20-30 years ago (not giving my age away) and would have killed for a selection like that in hardware. And then there are the wonderful upgrade paths available if you want to wade in deeper. Me ... I'm in so far I'm drowning in a sea of VST's! When I first started "virtualizing" my studio I picked up Cakewalk Home Studio 2002 and spent less than $50, got a MIDI interface for my keyboard (included - but serial) and it opened my eyes to the possibilities. Later after I was hooked (and found DXi limited) I graduated to Cubase SL and started collecting virtual instruments (Lounge Lizard for Rhodes, G-Media Oddity for my old ARP Odyssey, etc.) then I got Sonic Synth 1. That ruined me. Here in one package were all the old synths I thought I'd ever want or need. Plus excellent bread and butter sounds to boot! Never looked back! And compared to things like Virtual Sound Canvas and free Sound Fonts I've tried (not insinuating there aren't any good ones out there - just alot of time involved downloading and trying them out, etc) I think my return on investment could not have been better. That intro to SR and the wealth of help and assistance this support group here at KVR has been (and yes dear ... it is therapy) led me to purchase ST2 a few months ago and I just pre-ordered SS2 as well. I should be set for the next 50 years but I know Squids and them, within 3-6 months they'll have yet another package I'm just dying for (can you say Folk, Appalachia, Celt, Sound Effects collections? Hint Hint). When you get customer service like this, it sure helps close the deal and makes you keep coming back!

It seems like I ran across a sample site such as Hollywood Edge or somebody who offered a subscription deal where you could download individual samples the same way you download iTunes. Wonder how lucrative & profitable it has been for them?

Okay, I'll shut up and go to bed! I gotta quit watching this forum ... or enter a 12 step program!

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Candidly speaking here, what keeps companies like SR around are semi pro and pro musicians who buy our stuff and can afford it because they are investing in their music as well as hobbyists who just enjoy the power of making music on the computer these days and have the ability to afford it. These are consistent customers and many of them buy practically everything SR makes (or at least for a certain format such as ST or Reason).

Then there are a lot of customers who are on the fence perhaps because they are in between being a hobbyist and semi-pro who aspire to be pro or at least just making music that sounds pro. Some of those people will save up and spend several hundred bucks or more on something they really want for their music and others may never spend that much for whatever the reason.

The people that never spend much (but are willing to spend a few bucks) are difficult to get a large quantity of as customers in order to do enough business to sustain a high level of quality, format compatibility and instrument diversity in the sound offering. You'd have to take a much bigger risk in advertising and marketing in general to reach enough people for it to be worthwhile as a business with a payroll.

Since our customers range from the "on the fence" guy who I do my best to push (sorry, I mean well!) to the hobbyist, semi pro and pro musician our philosophy of having someone play with some of our sounds and then "maybe they'll pick up a collection if they like the few sounds they've test driven" is to give that stuff to them for FREE! We could easily charge for the sounds we give away. They ARE valuable. We even give away a free version of Sonik Synth 2 that can save unlimited variation presets and is kind of a nice VA synth itself... it costs the user nothing. But, it's not really "freeware". We're not doing it to reach the people who will never spend anything on sounds. I mean, they can have it too! But, it is the people who get it and say "Hey, I want more of this and I can afford it or I will find a way to!".

So, it's the same idea as selling a few $2 sounds and then they buy a $30 pack. It's just that it is a wider range. Say from FREE $0 up to $399 or so. ;) But there are plenty of products in-between like $39-$99-$199... Maybe we don't have to give away those sounds and could just charge instead. But, I think more people pick up the sounds when they are free and that means there are more people that might possibly buy a $49. refill, $99 Sonik Capsule or $399. Sonik Synth 2 (or in many cases all of the above!).

Just to give you guys some insight on how we look at it. However, I am still not opposed to selling some sounds individually and STILL giving away sounds for free and offering the best of both worlds. It just takes time. But, if you are SR and you can spend your time on Studiophonik or a couple thousand Soundfonts for people to download for a few bucks a pop then what are your priorities? ;)

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Well that sounds logical.

If I were completely pro I would just regularly allocate a chunk of budget and put it in the Squids account. Then I'd happily fork over the money to Squids to keep me up-to-date with all the best sounds.

At the moment, it's more like once a year or year and a half that I go for a push to update what I've got.

It just happens to be now for me and I'm bloody lucky that there's some EXCELLENT deals coming out of eSoundz just at the right time.

Sorry - drifting OT again. :oops:

Caleb
Happiness is the hidden behind the obvious.

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My thinking was that you'd just sell individual sounds that you already have created so you wouldn't have to be developing stuff specifically to sell individually (and for my purposes, I was only thinking of SampleTank2 sounds, since that's what I've got!). Then, you'd just need to upload the whole mess o' zip files to a server and combine it with eSoundz secure shopping cart system.

For marketing, you could just send an email to eSoundz members, since these are the people who've already been spending money on your products and know that they're quality.

Like I said in my original post, it's not cost effective for the customer necessarily (your example of the $10K for SS2 at $2/sound vs. $399 for SS2 all at once), but isn't it better to make a $2 sale then no sale at all? I don't think it cheapens Sonic Reality at all - the quality of their stuff is the reason anyone would be buying sounds from them in the first place.

More crazy ideas
Sell 'em by the pound - price on a per meg basis so the bigger sounds cost more.

Make your own downloadable Min-eRoms - for example; choose 10 sounds for a set price. This could even be the way to go instead of selling individual sounds as it would guarantee a certain minimum order.
"If it's where the heart is, how come you're never home?"

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I'd love to be able to order a single sound. What I'd like is some nice scottish bagpipes and a nice hurdy gurdy and also a harmonica. I'd be willing to pay $5-10 each for them if they are of high quality and very playable. Harmonicas are hard to come by, as are bagpipes and hurdy gurdies. Getting these would be a godsend.

Cheers
Ben

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benjamind wrote: I'd like is some nice scottish bagpipes and a nice hurdy gurdy and also a harmonica.
Cheers
Ben
You might be able to get the hurdy gurdy and the haronica but remember....

Use a bagpipe...got to jail...it's the law :uhuhuh:

Just kidding with you.

Dan

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SometimesNothing wrote:My thinking was that you'd just sell individual sounds that you already have created so you wouldn't have to be developing stuff specifically to sell individually (and for my purposes, I was only thinking of SampleTank2 sounds, since that's what I've got!). Then, you'd just need to upload the whole mess o' zip files to a server and combine it with eSoundz secure shopping cart system.

For marketing, you could just send an email to eSoundz members, since these are the people who've already been spending money on your products and know that they're quality.

Like I said in my original post, it's not cost effective for the customer necessarily (your example of the $10K for SS2 at $2/sound vs. $399 for SS2 all at once), but isn't it better to make a $2 sale then no sale at all? I don't think it cheapens Sonic Reality at all - the quality of their stuff is the reason anyone would be buying sounds from them in the first place.

More crazy ideas
Sell 'em by the pound - price on a per meg basis so the bigger sounds cost more.

Make your own downloadable Min-eRoms - for example; choose 10 sounds for a set price. This could even be the way to go instead of selling individual sounds as it would guarantee a certain minimum order.
I totally agree. We definitely HAVE the sounds. But, what we don't have yet is a shopping cart set up for downloadable sounds. eSoundz is all custom built and to build out a downloadable sound section would take time. That's why I say it is only a matter of time. If we do it we want to do it right. But, there other things that are higher on the priority list. For example, we're working on a system for group buys that will be implemented in January. We're working on more ways to help the customer our with relevant information, more demos, more ePointz and membership benefits.... more products... things that enhance the business we already do. Downloadable sounds could be one of them. We'll see. Hopefully it won't be a labor intensive and time consuming thing to build. If so that could put it in question potentially. So, it all depends. To be honest, if I could have the solution TODAY and just turn on a switch then I might do it just to see how it goes. It's the taking resources off of other things to do it that makes me put it down the list of priorities a little.

Again, some insight for you if you're interested.

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I have to admire Squids for his thinking of new ways to get his sounds into the hands of us drooling users. Just my two cents, I probably wouldn't be interested in single purchases. After all, you need to audition those sounds online and imagine what they may sound like in your mix. I would much rather buy a bulk bundle of sounds at a lower cost, and have them right there. That way I can audition them right in my mix, (possibly tweaking them). Think of how long it would take to make a little demo of each sound, and post it on the web. Then to organize them, set up a way to collect the money, etc. I don't blame Squids for thinking long about tackling that mountain of work.

I agree with those who think you can't have too many sounds. At the $200 SS2 upgrade fee, we're only paying 4 cents a sound. The way I do the math, if I were to pay $2 per sound, I could get 100 sounds for the same money. That means if I don't like 98% of the sounds, I still break even. I bet I will like many more than that!!

Another way to look at it is time. Let's say you're a speed demon, and fast decision maker, and you can listen to a demo, punch your credit card number into a site, download the sound, and put it somewhere on your hard drive where you can find it in 5 minutes a sound. It would take you over 400 hours to download 5000 sounds!

I fit into Squids typical customer profile, I guess.

OT Question Squids,,, the first group buy with SS1 was my first exposure to a group buy deal, and I really enjoyed the whole expirience. Did you pioneer this marketing technique?

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harmony gardens wrote: OT Question Squids,,, the first group buy with SS1 was my first exposure to a group buy deal, and I really enjoyed the whole expirience. Did you pioneer this marketing technique?
No. SR provided some sample profiles for Cameleon so I follow activity of that program (also just because I like it). There was a successful group buy for it a few months back and it sparked my interest. I started the SS1 group buy as an experiment and as a way to clear the remaining stock to make room for SS2. I had no idea it would take off like that.

Then we did the tron group buy and that was successful too, considering how estoric it was. We're currently doing a mega drum kit group buy and so far it is going pretty good. It hasn't picked up steam yet though. It should because drums appeal to a lot of people. I am wondering if perhaps a video demo might kick it into high gear once people see what it can do. Or perhaps people are waiting for the price to go down. It does little by little. Luckily it doesn't take that many people to bring the price down to where it is a steal (or in the $.05 per sound category).

By the way, you made some very good points. To me, the only thing I really like about having an on line source for downloadable single purchase sounds is when you are in the midst of a session and needa Sitar and you don't have one. I mean, that IS one of the benefits of massive workstations like SS2 (a 'library' of your own to pool from with variety to cover those situations). But, if you could go download it from your favorite developers it is a nice option. No one would download 5,000 sounds but a "sound in a pinch" would be nice. Again, I don't know how profitable that is for the sound developer. I guess that depends on how many musicians there are out there that would do it.

I play in a band and I have to learn some songs for a gig tomorrow night. I don't have time to go to the store or even order on line and have a CD overnighted to me. I also don't want to buy the whole album for that one song! So, Apple's site for individual downloadable songs is pretty handy for that situtation. Although, that's SONGS and millions of people want those. If millions of people wanted individual SOUNDS then there'd be no question about it!

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harmony gardens wrote:I agree with those who think you can't have too many sounds. At the $200 SS2 upgrade fee, we're only paying 4 cents a sound. The way I do the math, if I were to pay $2 per sound, I could get 100 sounds for the same money. That means if I don't like 98% of the sounds, I still break even. I bet I will like many more than that!!
:lol: I like those numbers!

Forever,




Kim.

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You could say a workstation synth with 5,000 sounds is like buying in "bulk". But, then when you add in what possible combinations of them since many are designed to work together to make yet more composite combi sounds then it is exponential. We're talking in mathematical terms into some pretty high numbers!

So, it's deep because there's the value of the sounds individually (and $.04 per can't be beat selling individually! ;) ) and then there's the value of it all intergrated into one product (not to mention a full engine, fx, interface and special features!

If you think about it that way then you can think of Sonik Synth 2 as one incredible deal. Wait until I post the 5,000+ patch list!!!! :lol:

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