KVR Audio

caganer · Post by **caganer** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:12 am

Why don't you try Magix Samplitude?

FaX · Post by **FaX** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:27 am

Live is a CPU hog on Mac G4 laptops .
PC it's rather efficient.

Simpler - is a simple sampler but trust me you'd be amazed just what you can do with it.
Download the tacklebox demo and see what some well crafted waveforms can do for simpler.
Also only use the number of voices necessary in Simpler to conserve CPU over head.

Impulse - great little drum machine / you can even region clips /drag and drop slices into simpler and save the patch without destroying the original sample file.

Also simpler is great for vox samples where you want to do sample start/end modulations via clip envelopes etc etc - same with small loops throuwn into it and the like. It's called simpler because it's a simple sampler - get it

.

On my laptop it takes alot to get above 80% CPU.
Infact my last track was 4 NNXT's rewired ,1 Crystal 2.4 ,1 Da'Hornet ,PM4 ,3 impulse , 2 simplers , 1 Motion 2.8 ,and 1 Bojo OrganOne + 34 Vst effects and 7 stereo audio tracks and at 80-89% CPU max it still didn't glitch or hiccup.

I can run 20 audio tracks and around 36 VST effects and still be under 60% total CPU sometimes even lower like 34-45% CPU depending on the VST effects I use.

That said it's not for everyone. I tried Fruity and Orion and a mate tried to convince me that Sonar was
the go but Live 4 works really well for me.

Perhaps you just need to find a host that you feel really comfortable with and it's quite possible that Live isn't that host.

Andywanders · Post by **Andywanders** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:51 am

FaX wrote:Live is a CPU hog on Mac G4 laptops .
PC it's rather efficient.

1 instance of Impulse with three outs, 1 Live reverb and 1 Live delay on return busses, 3 audio tracks, and 1 instance of Synth 1 = 35% CPU.

Sorry FaX, but that ain't efficient.

On Logic that wouldn't get to 15%.

FaX wrote:Simpler - is a simple sampler but trust me you'd be amazed just what you can do with it..

You're right there. I cant get a set of piano samples into it, can't get a couple of bass samples into, as I said earlier "no layers or splits" so yes... I would be amazed if I could do anything with it.

FaX wrote: Impulse - great little drum machine / you can even region clips /drag and drop slices into simpler and save the patch without destroying the original sample file.

Also simpler is great for vox samples where you want to do sample start/end modulations via clip envelopes etc etc - same with small loops throuwn into it and the like. It's called simpler because it's a simple sampler - get it ..

Yes, I do like the Impulse rhythm instrument - very nice.

The rest of that quote I just don't understand.

As for why it's called "Simpler", surely just calling it "Wave Player" would have been more appropriate.

FaX wrote: On my laptop it takes alot to get above 80% CPU.
Infact my last track was 4 NNXT's rewired ,1 Crystal 2.4 ,1 Da'Hornet ,PM4 ,3 impulse , 2 simplers , 1 Motion 2.8 ,and 1 Bojo OrganOne + 34 Vst effects and 7 stereo audio tracks and at 80-89% CPU max it still didn't glitch or hiccup.

I can run 20 audio tracks and around 36 VST effects and still be under 60% total CPU sometimes even lower like 34-45% CPU depending on the VST effects I use..

NNXT... Now THAT'S a sampler..! Shame there isn't a VST version.

Those CPU figures are sure impressive FaX, especially with Crysal thrown in there. As you can see from earlier in this post, I'm not getting close to that. Are you using an Athlon..? Do you think it might be Pentium de-normal issues..?

FaX wrote: Perhaps you just need to find a host that you feel really comfortable with and it's quite possible that Live isn't that host.

Well I do feel really comfortable with Logic, I've been using it since it first came out on the Atari and know it really well. But I really need something like Live for it's time-stretching abilities, and I do like the way you can jam with it. It's just, at the moment, it seems to have more cons than pros to justify the cost. Now if there was a Live "lite" version, with no MIDI or any plugins - just audio and rewire - that would probably do it.

Thanks for your input. It's interesting to find someone who is actually getting respectable CPU figures from Live.

FaX · Post by **FaX** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:13 am

Mine is a P4 3.2 ghz H/T barton core i865 professionally customised Toshiba 17" desknote (1 gig ram) - ext Lacie D2 drive.

What are your buffer and sample rates set too just out of curiosity ?
Synth 1 uses zilch CPU on my system also.
Just out of curiosity - soundcard and driver types also hardrive speed (cache etc).
And your system cache/ram speed if possible

This is really strange because when we did the CPU useage test for PC/Mac @ Ableton my PC only used 2% more CPU in total for the same .als file as the dual 2.0ghz G5 and the Athalon was on average around 1% better from memory.

You can automate all the simplers parameters via clip envelope properties including sample start /end /loop point / velocity / adsr / filter /lfo to filter etc etc - so you cando dsome very neat chop ups of vox samples and very clever drum loop manipulations and the like also.
I might add using digicyclic waveforms in Simpler gives you very efficiet key transposition with very little if any aliasing oddly enough.
The vintage waves in the tackle box stuff are damn handy also.

Getting back on topic though somethings a bit fishy there with CPU use. Crystal on average uses 5-12% CPU depending on patch and voices used here.
All UGO's stuff clocks in pretty much around the 9-10% mark per instance for S.Theory and Texture also.

But as I said something is up thats more like a 1.25ghz G4 PB CPU spec ...to my way of thinking.
Also you do know how to lower polyphony in simpler do you ? (this helps also)

Andywanders · Post by **Andywanders** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:17 am

FaX wrote:Getting back on topic though somethings a bit fishy there with CPU use. Crystal on average uses 5-12% CPU depending on patch and voices used here.
All UGO's stuff clocks in pretty much around the 9-10% mark per instance for S.Theory and Texture also.

But as I said something is up thats more like a 1.25ghz G4 PB CPU spec ...to my way of thinking.
Also you do know how to lower polyphony in simpler do you ? (this helps also)

It's a Pentium IV 2.4Ghz, 512 mb RAM, WIN 98 optimised for audio. Obviously as you're using a Pentium, it cannot be a de-normal issue. As I said before, CPU use with other software (Logic and Tracktion) is fine - much lower than Live - so I really don't think there's anything wrong with my setup. It's rock solid 99% of the time.

I know about lowering polyphony in Simpler, but that's not it either, as I didn't use it in my test and don't plan to use it if I buy Live. It's interesting to hear though, how you apply Live's automation to Simpler, thanks for explaining that.

I think I will try testing Live as a rewire slave in Logic when I next get some free time. If I can get it to play a few loops on a busy song, that might be good enough. Will post any interesting results.

Thanks again

kovacs · Post by **kovacs** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:33 am

I'm actually having more issues with Live's CPU usage on my Athlon XP 3200+ with 768 MB and an audiophile soundcard, than on my PowerBook G4 1ghz (also with 768 MB RAM).

That said, Live is an awesome tool and I believe Ableton will have to come up with a solution to the CPU hogging. There are many ways to use Live, and in my experience some ways eat much more CPU than others. I tend to use the arranger view most of the time and thus use Lvie as my main sequencer rather than a loop player - which means I stack up a lot of effects etc.

I warmly recommend it, though.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:55 am

Like I said before, I would still recommend it too... but primarily as a loop tool.

The MIDI editing is just fine if you want to sequence a four bar loop (for example) and then bounce it down as *another* audio clip. Perhaps it should have been sold on this basis though

It seems to me the real problem is that version 4 has been marketed and hyped up as something much more than that

... and it simply isn't

.

Wormhelmet · Post by **Wormhelmet** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:27 am

I really like ableton because it gives me a groovebox kind of feel in a program. Cool for live stuff, and easy midi recording, overdub, editing, etc. I just recorded an 80 bar midi track of some solo playing on a new tune I'm working on and it was fairly easy to chop it and copy it and put the parts I wanted to loop to other tracks to try out with different VSTi's. i can live with the CPU usage because I don't mind throwing down midi loops into audio most of the time. I just got to remember to use some dryer sounds on the synth parts and add the delays in later so as not to make the loop choppy. or you can just record long audio passages and one-shot them. I have a 2000+ Athlon and a gig of RAM and get about 22% average CPU use with Texture and EZPoly going on two tracks and 6 audio tracks playing. It's definitely not something I'll be able to open 5 VSTi's and 20 audio tracks on, unless the clips are small or I'm using synth1 as my sole VSTi. I'm not a damn orchestra anyway, so I don't care. The type of music I make can have ten tracks resampled to one and only open a couple of VST's to play with live while I record into the arrangement. if I have a problem and want to get all technical, then I'll open another bloated program to get all high tech in. It doesn't seem like much of a CPU hit difference than FL Studio IMO. main thing is it's intuitive, fun, and really gave me an inspirational kick because of the workflow. I thought FL Studio and Acid were easy, but this is a breeze. I didn't expect it to be the end all of DAW's. Maybe 5 though???

AndreasE · Post by **AndreasE** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:36 am

andywanders wrote:Maybe I should try something else..?
Any recommendations..?

I would recommend Samplitude.
If you want to have a comparable application to Live, but with a far better VFM, you should try Magix Music Maker 2005 (deluxe).

Wormhelmet · Post by **Wormhelmet** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:49 am

The magix music studio does sound kinda cool. How does it sound and handle VST's though? $79.00 is really affordable. maybe i'll try a demo of that too.

stale bread · Post by **stale bread** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:57 pm

andywanders wrote:
headquest wrote:As an audio loop tool, Live is the proverbial dog's chestnuts, but if you want a full-on MIDI/audio sequencer/host, look elsewhere. Live will disappoint you. You are right about the CPU hit in Live 4. It simply seems unable to handle VSTs efficiently.

Whatever happens, I'll still be a Logic user - I've been using it for too long now (can't teach an old dog...) and have developed a good workflow with it.

Hmm... Decisions, decisions...

no offense to headquest but his statements are totally subjective, he's one of a few people who feel like that and there are thousands that feel exactly opposite, in my opinion
you've worked it out for yourself in your last comment 'logic
too long', it just doesn't sound like live is what you're looking for, it is an instrument first, which is a very differnt ethic than the other host, but there are alot and I mean alot of folks who love to sequence with it and do traditional recording as well, skimming through abletons forum or even the post regarding live here on kvr will show that its far from just a loop tool, and when I hear about all the hype that surrounds the application I can't think of
anything more hyped than the fact that its only good for playing loops....thats a fib

Andywanders · Post by **Andywanders** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:28 am

Thanks for all the replies folks - a lot of usefull comments there.

I'm definitely gonna wait now until I've tried Samplitude and Magix Studio (that really does look like amazing value for money).

AndreasE · Post by **AndreasE** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:05 am

andywanders wrote: until I've tried Samplitude and Magix Studio (that really does look like amazing value for money).

You should also try Magix Music Maker.

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:13 am

FaX wrote:Live is a CPU hog on Mac G4 laptops .
PC it's rather efficient..

everything is a cpu hog on a G4

kovacs · Post by **kovacs** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:14 pm

spaceman wrote:
FaX wrote:Live is a CPU hog on Mac G4 laptops .
PC it's rather efficient..
everything is a cpu hog on a G4

No, FLS never hogs my G4 CPU.

Live - Should I..?