VST Wrapping is Issue in Sonar 4.01 - It's NO red herring

[WillieJenkins]

LEARN HOW TO USE QUOTES, APPARENTLY THOSE 20 YEARS HAVEN'T INVOLVED USING FORUMS, OR THE INTERNET

johnmorales quoth


Also each time you "wrap" a VST or Plug in, doesn't that use a tad bit extra processor usage?

Yes. But the overhead is basically function redirection, which has an absolutely negligible overhead compared to the amount of DSP calculations a softsynth or effect would be carrying out, and the overhead is occuring on functions which process blocks of audio samples, so the overhead is reduced by a very large factor indeed.

VERY COOL, THANKS FOR THE EXLANATION AS YOU UNDERSTAND IT. I had asked a question, not stated a fact.

It has to be an active process as you use Sonar. It does NOT alter the VST. It displays it in a DXi usable form. It does this real time. So logic dictates if it is doing this real time, and a wrapper is inserted inbetween the wrapped VST and Sonar. Each instance of wrapping should increase the processor power usage.

I sincerely doubt if the overhead would register even 1% of your CPU usage

In otherwords your very knowledgeable sounding previous answer to my question is kind of bogus. You do NOT know truly if it uses much power. YOU ARE ASSUMING based on how you understand things. HOWEVER based on your assumption. It does sound like you know what you are talking about, and I would be inclined to accept. What you said as true.

If you feel differently, tell me based on computer logic, please spare me the "it doesn't do that to me - so it's not so" nobrain responses.

I tend to think that those who say there are NO problems with VST synths and plug ins are more into clips and pure audio mixing, and not so much into MIDI, softynth and plug in usage.

It doesnt really matter what you 'tend to think'. Your uninformed opinion has no bearing on the facts. I use dozens of softsynths and effects in my projects.

Very cool, I must have another Cakewalk is God person. You reply to my "OPINION" Which I honestly state is an "OPINION" with an ad hominum personal attack in order to make me seem stupid. Unfortunately you only wounded yourself. I love this. I wish I had started posting sooner. Schills are easy targets

If they were they'd realize how quickly Sonar maxxes out. When you try to use wrapped VSTs.

No, you're the one who needs to realise that this does not happen for other people.

I always feel very special to know a someone who is SO 100% confident that he KNOW EVERYTHING. JUST how did you come to this conclusion. Did you expend your omnipresent mind into every studio that uses Sonar and find this to be true, or perhaps you have visited sat down with and worked with every sonar user and proved this beyond of shadow of a doubt. I mean this is possible. Since as you said THIS DOES NOT happen for other people.

I have to be ready to bounce down after each midi-track with any effects. If I exceed 3 or 4 tracks.

Then I would suggest you might have other significant issues, because this

I did slip on this one. With my current set up. I don't run into this until much later. I was thinking of the previous 3 set ups. Oh and thank you for deducing without any information whatsoever. That this is a set up problem. You must work for Sonar Tech support and specialize in obnoxious replies to real problems.

I'd have no problem with this. IF CAKEWALK WAS HONEST about this limitation.

If it doesnt happen on other peple's systems, then it isnt a limitation. It may be a problem for you but that does not make it universal.

Who said it was universal? I MADE NO SUCH STATEMENT. I said it happens to some people. On the other hand YOU DID. You are the one who so confidently said IT DOES NOT HAPPEN for anyone anywhere.

They again weren't and instead directed me to do numerous re-ins/un-ins for the host program and the wrapped VSTs to ensure there wasn't something wrong with that, and of course they eventually blamed my computer. Which is a p4 3.4ghz extreme edition with hyperthreading and I'm using a 1010lt for a soundcard. So that didn't set with me too well.

So you're claiming that no abberant behaviour could ever be caused by someone's setup, installation problems, or software conflicts?

NO YOU ARE SAYING I SAID THAT STUPID SH** IN ORDER TO HAVE SOMETHING STUPID TO REPLY TO and make yourself feel smart. LOL Get real, did you fail english comprehension? You infer way too much from what I said. I stated a problem. Since I was able to solve it. Without resorting to the drastic measures suggested. Then answer the question. Why do you think it's my system?

Quite frankly, that makes your claim of '20 years' of experience sound ludicrous.

AH, how sweet how superior, desert is last. You wind up with yet anotehr personal attack. What I don't get is why you feel the need to defend Sonar so. You respond as if I am personally attacking you. Why is that? Do you get Sonar for free as a testor or perhaps more?

RE: My experience, Obvously you have far less. Since your responses were so completely and utterly easy to destroy, and rather than dealing with the issue you insulted me. ROTFLMAO I had a lot of fun. Please Mr. "Cakewalk is God" I feel extra special today getting to access your vast storehouse of irrefutable knowledge and certainty as to the
workings of every sonar set up everywhere.


It's unfortunate that your duty as a schill for Cakewalk prevents you from helping others as you are clearly capable of doing due to your advanced knowledge of computers in general as demonstrated by your initial responses. (Oh and that was a back-handedcompliment-but most likely you will only feel insulted

[johnmorales]

yeah you know what john, you're a jerk, go back and read my posts, I answered pretty much every one that you posted, I asked you to send me audio files, I asked which vstis you'd use and told you I'd load them for you.

You were asking for logic in an earlier post, and I was trying to logically describe to you that there are thousands of not tens of thousands of sonar uses, when 2-5 people on any given forum have an issue, most of the time its user error.

I asked you for all these things, and spent time writing replies to your posts, trying to help you, and that crap is what you respond with?

You're a truly pathetic human being, I'm through with you. Good luck in solving your problems with anger and hate. I tried to be nice, you seeming didn't care, so since you feel you can be an unprovoked moron to me, I'll be an equally provoked ignorant fool back.

Read your original post again. YOU OFFERED NO SOLUTIONS. You stated common situations. That do occur. That do cause problems. You stated them as if I am so lacking in knowledge. That of course I NEVER could have possibly tried those fixes or looked at those problems. Gee I did, per the suggestions from Sonar Tech Support. That doesn't stop you from restating them again as if it's all new to me. You asked me to name the VSTs I'm having problems with, I clearly stated one GALACTIX. Which is available on KVR for free. Your must have missed that while skimming my post in order to find things to fight the Sonar fight. The smart thing would have been to download the VST test it, and come back and shove it in my face. LOL However why actually try to help. Your only goal as a Sonar Schill is to BOOST SONAR and SHUT UP anyone who has a problem with it.

[johnmorales]

LEARN HOW TO USE QUOTES, APPARENTLY THOSE 20 YEARS HAVEN'T INVOLVED USING FORUMS, OR THE INTERNET

Gee another insult. At least you are consistent. You deduction as to my experience re: forums is limited. AS I SAID IN MY POST TO YOU - I wished I had started a long time ago. Since replying to you is fun. However if you are so good at using forums. Why did you do the hairbrained thing of reposting my reply to you. Did you also enjoy it so much. You felt it needed reposting, or is your ability to explain so limited you couldn't find the easy proper monosyllabic words to tell me just how I f****d up?

johnmorales quoth


Also each time you "wrap" a VST or Plug in, doesn't that use a tad bit extra processor usage?

Yes. But the overhead is basically function redirection, which has an absolutely negligible overhead compared to the amount of DSP calculations a softsynth or effect would be carrying out, and the overhead is occuring on functions which process blocks of audio samples, so the overhead is reduced by a very large factor indeed.

VERY COOL, THANKS FOR THE EXLANATION AS YOU UNDERSTAND IT. I had asked a question, not stated a fact.

It has to be an active process as you use Sonar. It does NOT alter the VST. It displays it in a DXi usable form. It does this real time. So logic dictates if it is doing this real time, and a wrapper is inserted inbetween the wrapped VST and Sonar. Each instance of wrapping should increase the processor power usage.

I sincerely doubt if the overhead would register even 1% of your CPU usage

In otherwords your very knowledgeable sounding previous answer to my question is kind of bogus. You do NOT know truly if it uses much power. YOU ARE ASSUMING based on how you understand things. HOWEVER based on your assumption. It does sound like you know what you are talking about, and I would be inclined to accept. What you said as true.

If you feel differently, tell me based on computer logic, please spare me the "it doesn't do that to me - so it's not so" nobrain responses.

I tend to think that those who say there are NO problems with VST synths and plug ins are more into clips and pure audio mixing, and not so much into MIDI, softynth and plug in usage.

It doesnt really matter what you 'tend to think'. Your uninformed opinion has no bearing on the facts. I use dozens of softsynths and effects in my projects.

Very cool, I must have another Cakewalk is God person. You reply to my "OPINION" Which I honestly state is an "OPINION" with an ad hominum personal attack in order to make me seem stupid. Unfortunately you only wounded yourself. I love this. I wish I had started posting sooner. Schills are easy targets

If they were they'd realize how quickly Sonar maxxes out. When you try to use wrapped VSTs.

No, you're the one who needs to realise that this does not happen for other people.

I always feel very special to know a someone who is SO 100% confident that he KNOW EVERYTHING. JUST how did you come to this conclusion. Did you expend your omnipresent mind into every studio that uses Sonar and find this to be true, or perhaps you have visited sat down with and worked with every sonar user and proved this beyond of shadow of a doubt. I mean this is possible. Since as you said THIS DOES NOT happen for other people.

I have to be ready to bounce down after each midi-track with any effects. If I exceed 3 or 4 tracks.

Then I would suggest you might have other significant issues, because this

I did slip on this one. With my current set up. I don't run into this until much later. I was thinking of the previous 3 set ups. Oh and thank you for deducing without any information whatsoever. That this is a set up problem. You must work for Sonar Tech support and specialize in obnoxious replies to real problems.

I'd have no problem with this. IF CAKEWALK WAS HONEST about this limitation.

If it doesnt happen on other peple's systems, then it isnt a limitation. It may be a problem for you but that does not make it universal.

Who said it was universal? I MADE NO SUCH STATEMENT. I said it happens to some people. On the other hand YOU DID. You are the one who so confidently said IT DOES NOT HAPPEN for anyone anywhere.

They again weren't and instead directed me to do numerous re-ins/un-ins for the host program and the wrapped VSTs to ensure there wasn't something wrong with that, and of course they eventually blamed my computer. Which is a p4 3.4ghz extreme edition with hyperthreading and I'm using a 1010lt for a soundcard. So that didn't set with me too well.

So you're claiming that no abberant behaviour could ever be caused by someone's setup, installation problems, or software conflicts?

NO YOU ARE SAYING I SAID THAT STUPID SH** IN ORDER TO HAVE SOMETHING STUPID TO REPLY TO and make yourself feel smart. LOL Get real, did you fail english comprehension? You infer way too much from what I said. I stated a problem. Since I was able to solve it. Without resorting to the drastic measures suggested. Then answer the question. Why do you think it's my system?

Quite frankly, that makes your claim of '20 years' of experience sound ludicrous.

AH, how sweet how superior, desert is last. You wind up with yet anotehr personal attack. What I don't get is why you feel the need to defend Sonar so. You respond as if I am personally attacking you. Why is that? Do you get Sonar for free as a testor or perhaps more?

RE: My experience, Obvously you have far less. Since your responses were so completely and utterly easy to destroy, and rather than dealing with the issue you insulted me. ROTFLMAO I had a lot of fun. Please Mr. "Cakewalk is God" I feel extra special today getting to access your vast storehouse of irrefutable knowledge and certainty as to the
workings of every sonar set up everywhere.


It's unfortunate that your duty as a schill for Cakewalk prevents you from helping others as you are clearly capable of doing due to your advanced knowledge of computers in general as demonstrated by your initial responses. (Oh and that was a back-handedcompliment-but most likely you will only feel insulted

[whyterabbyt]

whyterabbyt quoth
VERY COOL, THANKS FOR THE EXLANATION AS YOU UNDERSTAND IT. I had asked a question, not stated a fact.

Thats why you were given the explanation.

In otherwords your very knowledgeable sounding previous answer to my question is kind of bogus.

And on what basis do you make that assertion? Not knowing how much of an overhead occurs on your machine running an unknown number of plugins does not change the actions of the adaptor in any way.

The fact is that there are no available means of measuring the overhead exactly. That has no relevance to how the adaptor works.


You do NOT know truly if it uses much power. YOU ARE ASSUMING based on how you understand things. HOWEVER based on your assumption.

Yes I do know that it does not 'use much power'. Not only because the developer (Angus Hewlett of FXpansion) has stated that to be a fact, or the fact that I know what an adaptor would be required to do, and how VSTs interact with their hosts (which is different from assuming, btw) but because it can be observed in practice by anyone with half a clue.

It does sound like you know what you are talking about, and I would be inclined to accept. What you said as true.

To be honest, your acceptance of this is irrelevant; it does not change the facts.


Very cool, I must have another Cakewalk is God person. You reply to my "OPINION" Which I honestly state is an "OPINION" with an ad hominum personal attack in order to make me seem stupid.

Actually you started the entire thread with ad hominem attacks. But what I stated here was not an ad hominem attack. Your opinion is uninformed, since you have no idea what usage other people make of Sonar.
I have no need to make you 'look stupid'.

Unfortunately you only wounded yourself. I love this. I wish I had started posting sooner. Schills are easy targets

So you actually admit that you are nothing more than a paid schill of a rival company attempting to discredit Cakewalk? Please enjoy your status as a professional troll.

I always feel very special to know a someone who is SO 100% confident that he KNOW EVERYTHING. JUST how did you come to this conclusion.

What, that it does not happen for other people? Easy; it does not happen for me. I am another person. Therefore it does not happen for other people. With other people there is an absence of it happening.

Did you expend your omnipresent mind into every studio that uses Sonar and find this to be true, or perhaps you have visited sat down with and worked with every sonar user and proved this beyond of shadow of a doubt. I mean this is possible. Since as you said THIS DOES NOT happen for other people.

I did not state all other people. The opposits of 'none' is 'more than zero'. Please learn some basic logic before attempting to tell me what I did and did not claim.

I did slip on this one. With my current set up. I don't run into this until much later. I was thinking of the previous 3 set ups.

Oh right. You're one of those people who can't differentiate between the circumstances you're talking about, and a completely different set of circumstances. That must mean you're really good at explaining issues to tech support people.

Oh and thank you for deducing without any information whatsoever. That this is a set up problem.

I said 'other significant issues' not 'set up problem'. Please learn to read properly.

You must work for Sonar Tech support and specialize in obnoxious replies to real problems.

Why? Because you don't have a grasp of basic logic? I don't quite think so.

Who said it was universal? I MADE NO SUCH STATEMENT. I said it happens to some people.

Then if the problem is not universal it is not a 'limitation'. You do remember claiming it was a 'limitation' didnt you?

On the other hand YOU DID. You are the one who so confidently said IT DOES NOT HAPPEN for anyone anywhere.

Your literacy issues are showing again. Please learn to read properly before responding. Thank you.

NO YOU ARE SAYING I SAID THAT STUPID SH** IN ORDER TO HAVE SOMETHING STUPID TO REPLY TO and make yourself feel smart.[/i]

I asked you a question. Would you care to answer it?

Get real, did you fail english comprehension?

No, but it appears you did.

You infer way too much from what I said. I stated a problem. Since I was able to solve it. Without resorting to the drastic measures suggested. Then answer the question. Why do you think it's my system?

I don't claim that it is your system. But you have specifically claimed that it is not. You have specifically claimed that it could not be your system. That is false.

AH, how sweet how superior, desert is last. You wind up with yet anotehr personal attack.

Please learn what a 'personal attack' actually is. Asserting that some of your statements are inconsistent with your claimed experience is not a personal attack.

What I don't get is why you feel the need to defend Sonar so.

Please point out where I have 'defended Sonar'.

You respond as if I am personally attacking you. Why is that? Do you get Sonar for free as a testor or perhaps more?

You respond to me as if I am personally attacking you. Why is that? Do you get Cubase for free as a tester or perhaps more?

RE: My experience, Obvously you have far less.[/i]

Actually I have more. But thanks for playing.

Since your responses were so completely and utterly easy to destroy, and rather than dealing with the issue you insulted me.

Funny, I see nothing in your statements that 'destroy' anything I actually said. Perhaps you are assuming that because you made false claims about what I did and did not say, and responded to those then you have achieved something, but you have not.

ROTFLMAO I had a lot of fun.

Im glad.

Please Mr. "Cakewalk is God" I feel extra special today getting to access your vast storehouse of irrefutable knowledge and certainty as to the
workings of every sonar set up everywhere.

That's funny, I have made no such claims. Have you been reading someone else's posts by mistakes? Maybe you've just 'slipped' on that one too.


It's unfortunate that your duty as a schill for Cakewalk prevents you from helping others as you are clearly capable of doing due to your advanced knowledge of computers in general as demonstrated by your initial responses. (Oh and that was a back-handedcompliment-but most likely you will only feel insulted

Indeed, I do actually spend a great deal of my time helping others here, so, amazingly, both parts of your ad hominem attack are incorrect. But of course, you no doubt have ulterior motives for accusing everyone who disagrees with you in any way whatsoever of being a 'schill'. No doubt that's part of the training package Steinberg sent you when they paid you off.

[WillieJenkins]

haha whyterabbyt, you're the man.

I lose my temper too quickly

I fly off the handle when I genuinely try and help these people, then I realize they're about 2 IQ points away from a rutabaga.

Anyway, I'm not going to respond directly to johnmoral-less anymore, I'll just insult him from time to time, just to keep his high-strung nature tightly wound.

Keep fighting the good fight

[johnmorales]

whyterabbyt quoth
VERY COOL, THANKS FOR THE EXLANATION AS YOU UNDERSTAND IT. I had asked a question, not stated a fact.

Thats why you were given the explanation.

In otherwords your very knowledgeable sounding previous answer to my question is kind of bogus.

And on what basis do you make that assertion? Not knowing how much of an overhead occurs on your machine running an unknown number of plugins does not change the actions of the adaptor in any way.

The fact is that there are no available means of measuring the overhead exactly. That has no relevance to how the adaptor works.


You do NOT know truly if it uses much power. YOU ARE ASSUMING based on how you understand things. HOWEVER based on your assumption.

Yes I do know that it does not 'use much power'. Not only becausethe developer (Angus Hewlett of FXpansion) has stated that to be a fact, nor the fact that I know what an adaptor would be required to do, and how VSTs interact with their hosts (which is different from assuming, btw) but because it can be observed in practice by anyone with half a clue.

It does sound like you know what you are talking about, and I would be inclined to accept. What you said as true.

To be honest, your acceptance of this is irrelevant; it does not change the facts.


Very cool, I must have another Cakewalk is God person. You reply to my "OPINION" Which I honestly state is an "OPINION" with an ad hominum personal attack in order to make me seem stupid.

Actually you started the entire thread with ad hominem attacks. But what I stated here was not an ad hominem attack. Your opinion is uninformed, since you have no idea what usage other people make of Sonar.
I have no need to make you 'look stupid'.

Unfortunately you only wounded yourself. I love this. I wish I had started posting sooner. Schills are easy targets

So you actually admit that you are nothing more than a paid schill of a rival company attemting to discredit Cakewalk? Please enjoy your status as a professional troll.



I always feel very special to know a someone who is SO 100% confident that he KNOW EVERYTHING. JUST how did you come to this conclusion.

What, that it does not happen for other people? Easy; it doesnt happen for me. I am another person. therefore it does not happen for other people.

Did you expend your omnipresent mind into every studio that uses Sonar and find this to be true, or perhaps you have visited sat down with and worked with every sonar user and proved this beyond of shadow of a doubt. I mean this is possible. Since as you said THIS DOES NOT happen for other people.

I did not state all other people. The opposits of 'none' is 'more than zero'. Please learn some basic logic before attempting to tell me what I did and did not claim.

I did slip on this one. With my current set up. I don't run into this until much later. I was thinking of the previous 3 set ups.

Oh right. You're one of those people who can't differentiate between the circumstances you're talking about, and a completely different set of circumstances. That must mean you're really good at explaining issues to tech support people.

Oh and thank you for deducing without any information whatsoever. That this is a set up problem.

I said 'other significant issues' not 'set up problem'. Please learn to read properly.

You must work for Sonar Tech support and specialize in obnoxious replies to real problems.

Why? Because you don't have a grasp of basic logic? I don't quite think so.

Who said it was universal? I MADE NO SUCH STATEMENT. I said it happens to some people.

Then if the problem is not universal it is not a 'limitation'. You do remember claiming it was a 'limitation' didnt you?

On the other hand YOU DID. You are the one who so confidently said IT DOES NOT HAPPEN for anyone anywhere.

Your literacy issues are showing again. Please learn to read properly before responding. Thank you.

NO YOU ARE SAYING I SAID THAT STUPID SH** IN ORDER TO HAVE SOMETHING STUPID TO REPLY TO and make yourself feel smart.[/i]

I asked you a question. Would you care to answer it?

Get real, did you fail english comprehension?

No, but it appears you did.

You infer way too much from what I said. I stated a problem. Since I was able to solve it. Without resorting to the drastic measures suggested. Then answer the question. Why do you think it's my system?

I don't claim that it is your system. But you have specifically claimed that it is not. You have specifically claimed that it could not be your system. That is false.

AH, how sweet how superior, desert is last. You wind up with yet anotehr personal attack.

Please learn what a 'personal attack' actually is. Asserting that some of your statements are inconsistent with your claimed experience is not a personal attack.

What I don't get is why you feel the need to defend Sonar so.

Please point out where I have 'defended Sonar'.

You respond as if I am personally attacking you. Why is that? Do you get Sonar for free as a testor or perhaps more?

You respond to me as I am personally attacking you. Why is that? Do you get Cubase for free as a testor or perhaps more?

RE: My experience, Obvously you have far less.[/i]

Actually I have more. But thanks for playing.

Since your responses were so completely and utterly easy to destroy, and rather than dealing with the issue you insulted me.

Funny, I see nothing un your statements that 'destroy' anything I actually said. Perhaps you are assuming that because you made false claims about what I did and did not say you, and responded to those then you have achieved something, but you have not.


ROTFLMAO I had a lot of fun.

Im glad.

Please Mr. "Cakewalk is God" I feel extra special today getting to access your vast storehouse of irrefutable knowledge and certainty as to the
workings of every sonar set up everywhere.

That's funny, I have made no such claims. Have you been reading someone else's posts by mistakes? Maybe you've just 'slipped' on that one too.


It's unfortunate that your duty as a schill for Cakewalk prevents you from helping others as you are clearly capable of doing due to your advanced knowledge of computers in general as demonstrated by your initial responses. (Oh and that was a back-handedcompliment-but most likely you will only feel insulted

Indeed, I do actually spend a great deal of my time helping others here, so, amazingly, both parts of your ad hominem attack are incorrect. But of course, you no doubt have ulterior motives for accusing everyone who disagrees with you in any way whatsoever of being a 'schill'. No doubt that's part of the training package Steinberg sent you when they paid you off.

There is no point in replying. Your poorly thought out point by point response does far more damage to your cause. Than anything I can say.
I'm fine with any logical discussion no matter how heated it may become. It's not about me or anyone, but about something people are trying to learn. However for you it's about winning at any cost. You employ the one technique I don't have any respect for. It's the technique of the lazy. You restate or distort the other persons comments, you slice and dice and only repeat the portion that forces what they wrote to fit and validate your reply. IN short you obfusticate. Since no one based on what you replied could guess my original situation.
Anyone knows with all the variables in what we are doing. There is NO correct. There is NO certain way to make sure everything will work identically on every sytem. Unless everything is identical. And while I think you know this. Knowing this does not stop you from responding as if it is. To even discuss as if there are hard rights and wrongs like you do. Is a waste of time. I'm not interested in winning.

I'm interested in finding out what works for me best, taking into as many variables as I can, and hoping that the people that reply also understand that understanding a person's situation involves asking questions, lots of questions.

Thoughtful questions that reflect their own experiences,and start out assuming the person who asked the original question or made the original comment understood somewhat decently his or her problem.

ONLY A FOOL STARTS OUT REPLYING WITH FAST AND HARD CONCLUSIONS. Which is exactly what you do and why communicating with you is futile, still at times it can be fun!!!

[johnmorales]

yeah you know what john, you're a jerk, go back and read my posts, I answered pretty much every one that you posted, I asked you to send me audio files, I asked which vstis you'd use and told you I'd load them for you.

You were asking for logic in an earlier post, and I was trying to logically describe to you that there are thousands of not tens of thousands of sonar uses, when 2-5 people on any given forum have an issue, most of the time its user error.

I asked you for all these things, and spent time writing replies to your posts, trying to help you, and that crap is what you respond with?

You're a truly pathetic human being, I'm through with you. Good luck in solving your problems with anger and hate. I tried to be nice, you seeming didn't care, so since you feel you can be an unprovoked moron to me, I'll be an equally provoked ignorant fool back.

GOD I HOPE YOU HOLD TO YOUR PROMISE. That was the whole point of ripping into you guys. I do not want to hear from Sonar Worshippers or Sonar Schills. I've had Sonar for 3 yrs now, and I have found gals like you are utterly worthless when it comes to real advice. Your first step is always. Question the person's ability to diagnose a problem. YOU NEVER DO THE LOGICAL. Which is to ask a good thoughtful amount of questions to thoroughly understand the posters original problem. Only fools start out with conclusions as if they know so much or know all they need to know always.

[johnmorales]

Why don't you just buy Directixer. Every plugin I have found that does not work with FXpansion VST wrapper (and that includes some commercial ones)works fine in Directixer. It's just harder to set up because each plugin has to be done manually. So, I use Fxpansion for most and the ones that give me trouble, I disable them in FXpansion and add them to Directixer. It works every time. Plus, VSTi's that generate MIDI output like Groove Agent, Broomstick Bass, etc. need Directixer's built-in MIDI loopback feature to fully work.

Hmmm, I think I'll try your suggestion. It's not that expensive. So you think the solution is to use more than one VST wrapper? Interesting.

[Funkybot]

I think there's a larger issue here that's not being looked at, one that when considered could satisfy both sides of this debate: does any ONE host work with EVERY vst plug-in? I've been on these boards a long time and certainly can not think of any. How many "I can't get this plug-in working with [insert host here]" posts have you seen? This seems to be more of an issue with the plug-ins themselves and not necessarily the host. Now, you also have to realize that the adapters are hosts unto themselves, and luckily if you're a Sonar user, you have options. You can use either the VST Adapter Cakewalk provides you for free, or go out and buy Directixer or another such adapter. Now if you're a Cubase or Logic user and a plug-in doesn't work with your host, you have very few options short of either the host or plug-in being updated. I'm sure the original poster is right about the plug-ins not working on his system, but I don't think that Cakewalk is a bastard company that tries to mislead its users because of this.

[johnmorales]

I think there's a larger issue here that's not being looked at, one that when considered could satisfy both sides of this debate: does any ONE host work with EVERY vst plug-in? I've been on these boards a long time and certainly can not think of any. How many "I can't get this plug-in working with [insert host here]" posts have you seen? This seems to be more of an issue with the plug-ins themselves and not necessarily the host. Now, you also have to realize that the adapters are hosts unto themselves, and luckily if you're a Sonar user, you have options. You can use either the VST Adapter Cakewalk provides you for free, or go out and buy Directixer or another such adapter. Now if you're a Cubase or Logic user and a plug-in doesn't work with your host, you have very few options short of either the host or plug-in being updated. I'm sure the original poster is right about the plug-ins not working on his system, but I don't think that Cakewalk is a bastard company that tries to mislead its users because of this.

Yeah that is a good point. I actually think Sonar is great software, and up to this point. I've used it exclusively. Which seems to be part of my problem. It seems most posters use different programs for different things. So based on that, I decided to try Cubase. Over the years I've used SONAR exclusively, I've read numorous posts from Cubase users. Who said that they use Sonar too, and when it comes to VSTs Cubase is better (better not perfect ) Also Cubase has a great "CROSSGRADE" program. I was able to get Cubase SX3 foronly $300. From what I understand. That's supposed to be a good price, but you need a receipt from Cakewalk to prove you have Sonar. I just hope those Cubase users are correct. LOL

[Wormhelmet]

I think I can suss out the problem fast here after reading the entire thread:

The problem is that the attitude needs to be replaced. If that problem gets fixed first, you will probably get lots of help here with other problems.

I've seen many a DAW problem get fixed after fine tuning the attitude. Maybe an attitude wrapper can be bought somewhere online to help you.

I have experienced VST problems in every DAW I've tried. Some work with some, but not others. Maybe you should think about getting another program to use with Sonar, since you ONLY USE SONAR. Or wait until Cakewalk puts out Sonar 10 with the Universal variable VST standard wrapper.

[whyterabbyt]

johnmorales quoth
There is no point in replying.


Of course not. That would require you to address the false claims you made with real facts.

Your poorly thought out point by point response does far more damage to your cause. Than anything I can say.

I have no 'cause', except to clarify that those things you have claimed are factual may not be, and to respond to the false assertions you have made.

I'm fine with any logical discussion no matter how heated it may become.

The evidence of your own posts indicates otherwise.

It's not about me or anyone, but about something people are trying to learn.

What exactly are you trying to 'learn'? How to be a 'schill' for Cubase, prehaps?

However for you it's about winning at any cost.

No, its about ascertaining the facts. You have heard of facts havent you?

For example, the fact that not only does Galactix crash in Sonar 4 using the current wrapper, but that it crashed when used inside Chainer and EnergyXT with exactly the same error message, despite the fact that neither of those hosts are wrapping Galactix by means of the Cakewalk wrapper.

Or the fact that very large number of people can run more than 3 or 4 wrapped softsynths without having to bounce down.

You employ the one technique I don't have any respect for. It's the technique of the lazy.

You employ most of the techniques I don't have any respect for.

You restate or distort the other persons comments, you slice and dice and only repeat the portion that forces what they wrote to fit and validate your reply.

I think you may be getting confused; what you are describing is your own tactic. I, on the other hand, as anyone reading this thread can quite plainly see, repeat all of the parts of a post I am addressing, in context.
I believe if you look under a dictionary definition of 'hypcrisy' you will gain some insight into your own 'technique'


IN short you obfusticate.

Are you sure you know what that word means?

Since no one based on what you replied could guess my original situation.

That is not a sentence. However someone else's theoretical ability to reverse engineer your 'original situation' from my last post has no relevance whatsoever to my post, or its context.

Anyone knows with all the variables in what we are doing.

Please restate this in a manner which actually makes some sense.


There is NO correct. There is NO certain way to make sure everything will work identically on every sytem. Unless everything is identical. And while I think you know this. Knowing this does not stop you from responding as if it is. To even discuss as if there are hard rights and wrongs like you do. Is a waste of time. I'm not interested in winning.

I'm interested in finding out what works for me best, taking into as many variables as I can, and hoping that the people that reply also understand that understanding a person's situation involves asking questions, lots of questions.

Thoughtful questions that reflect their own experiences,and start out assuming the person who asked the original question or made the original comment understood somewhat decently his or her problem.

Nothing in those three paragraphs is in any way consistent with the tone, or content of your responses in this thread. It is my conclusion that you are lying, and you are indeed trying to 'win' something, whatever it may be.

ONLY A FOOL STARTS OUT REPLYING WITH FAST AND HARD CONCLUSIONS.

Then you are a fool, for starting out with fast and hard conclusions eg.

If they were they'd realize how quickly Sonar maxxes out. When you try to use wrapped VSTs.

Which is exactly what you do and why communicating with you is futile, still at times it can be fun!!!

I am glad you are having fun with your inability to communicate clearly or maturely. You must make Steinberg so happy.

[whyterabbyt]

Funkybot quoth I'm sure the original poster is right about the plug-ins not working on his system, but I don't think that Cakewalk is a bastard company that tries to mislead its users because of this.

He's right about that, yes, but not his other assertion that the wrapper uses so much CPU it prevents one from using more than 3 or 4 softsynths.

However it should be pointed out that the error messages reported when the Galactix opens would appear to relate to graphics calls ('Window creation failed'), and the same errors are reported when attempting to load Galactix via Chainer or eXT which do not actually use the wrapper when hosting VST plugins.

My suspicion is that Galactix may be expecting something like a value for a pointer to a (window-related?) structure which is not explicitly required to be passed from a VST host to a VST plugin, but which commonly is, . I would suggest that the best course of action would not be to make dubious assertions that Cakewalk are trying to mislead their customers, but to contact the developer of GalactiX.

[kp]

I think there's a larger issue here that's not being looked at, one that when considered could satisfy both sides of this debate: does any ONE host work with EVERY vst plug-in? I've been on these boards a long time and certainly can not think of any. How many "I can't get this plug-in working with [insert host here]" posts have you seen? This seems to be more of an issue with the plug-ins themselves and not necessarily the host. Now, you also have to realize that the adapters are hosts unto themselves, and luckily if you're a Sonar user, you have options. You can use either the VST Adapter Cakewalk provides you for free, or go out and buy Directixer or another such adapter. Now if you're a Cubase or Logic user and a plug-in doesn't work with your host, you have very few options short of either the host or plug-in being updated. I'm sure the original poster is right about the plug-ins not working on his system, but I don't think that Cakewalk is a bastard company that tries to mislead its users because of this.

I started out pointing that out and got told it was irrelevant. I didn't bother to explain why it's relevant as I could tell by that time that it'd be pointless to do so.

[IDSEEKER]

whyterabbyt quoth

I would suggest that the best course of action would not be to make dubious assertions that Cakewalk are trying to mislead their customers, but to contact the developer of GalactiX.

Doohh!!! You were doing so well until you added the outrageously nonsensical notion that Cakewalk might not actually be trying to mislead their customers!

Oh, whyterabbyt! Surely the Troll du jour is preparing to brandish his sword again.

I also expect Funkybot and anyone else who has more than two interchanges with johnmorales to be subjected to his Alice in Wonderland merry go round of love.

[This may actually be my first post, though I've been registered and reading and downloading furiously for quite awhile. I guess I'm just too fond of this forum and its members to sit idly by while someone throws rocks down on you from a bridge.]

Cheers!