KVR Audio

Omniphonix · Post by **Omniphonix** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:18 pm

I really have to root for the Italian cops on this one. It's bad enough that DJs tend to make more than producers, when they start to just flat-out steal the tracks (considering they are supposed to be the primary source of funding for electronic musicicians), that's when people tend to just stop making music. Just like software, the more people pirate, the less we will see quality software produced. As a matter of fact, the less money bedroom producers make off their tracks, the greater the chances of them pirating the software they use to write them. It's all connected in some way...

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:22 pm

emdot_ambient wrote:I see where you're coming from but it's not a particularly analagous argument. The artist/gallery relationship is a symbiotic one (if not always a happy one). That's the main place artists earn their money. And apart from that, art gallery directors aren't looked on as superstars by the general public. Most people know the names of dozens of great artists but can name no gallery directors. By contrast, sure, DJ's help sell music but they are only one link in the music industry's hype, um, I mean marketing, machine. Yet in this culture DJs have become as famous or more so than the artists whose material they use. They're stars, regarded generally as artists in their own right. No gallery director, no matter how famous, has ever been considered an artist in their own right just because of the art they sell.

I'm not making any argument for or against DJs and their elevated status. It's just that I don't think there's any precedent for the status they've achieved in our pop-driven culture.

Well, in some circles, certain gallery owners are stars, but you're right, the DJ situation is more extreme. Some artistic merit in being a good collagist, but I guess just easier to to take credit for other people's music than other things.

shamann · Post by **shamann** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:25 pm

Audioflux1 wrote:I really have to root for the Italian cops on this one.

I agree with you, it's good they were able to catch him, I just wonder how they knew. It's not like police are likely to have the resources to raid every DJ, and it's also not easy to prove it wasn't fair use. Not illegal to copy discs you own if you don't redistribute them (in Canada at least), and I'd guess lots of DJs have gone that route over carting all that vinyl around.

Omniphonix · Post by **Omniphonix** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:36 pm

Yeah, I would even say if the DJ bought the track they are free to publicly perform it (at least the tracks I would sell). Pay me a meager dollar for the MP3 and play it wherever you like. It's when they fill their Serato playlist off of Kazaa and kick off their world tour with thousands of $$$ in music they stole, that's as bad as me stealing thousands of $$$ worth of software and selling the tracks I made with it to DJs around the world.

jackson · Post by **jackson** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:40 pm

Yeah, if the cops had warned him a bunch of times before and he kept doing it, then it serves him right.

I DJ, I produce. I feel no enmity towards DJs who earn more than the average producer, life ain't always fair, deal with it. Calling DJs "parasitic" by nature is pretty derogatory, and I definately see a very strong and healthy symbiotic relationship between DJs and producers, well, DJs who either pay for or are given tracks by labels or artists, anyway. DJs play the music, pay royalties per performance(I know it doesn't happen as much as it should, but...), get the songs recognition, and punters go buy the artists music or buy the DJ's mix CD which pays royalties to the track's artists. It's not a perfect system, far from it in fact, but again, that's just how it is.

On the other hand, I have a friend who does exactly what that Italian DJ does, he downloads the very latest, freshest tracks from the net and plays off a laptop. Totally illegal, and as he comes from Chicago, I find it disgusting that he rips off his local scene(that gives him a job!) so blatantly.

Mike

DwarfNebula · Post by **DwarfNebula** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:42 pm

Reuters wrote:ROME (Reuters) - An Italian DJ has been fined a record 1.4 million euros ($1.8 million) for using thousands of pirate music files in a nightclub near Rome, police said on Wednesday.

Police in the town of Rieti, near Rome, said they raided a popular nightclub earlier this week as part of a crackdown on piracy and seized 500 illegally copied music videos and more than 2,000 MP3 music files.

Police said the files belonged to a "well-known" Italian DJ.

"For the MP3 files, which were kept on the DJ's personal computer, the DJ has received a fine of 1.4 million euros," Rieti finance police said in a statement.

The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) said the fine was the biggest ever slapped on an individual for unlawful music copying and the use of copyrighted music in the MP3 format.

More than 7,000 legal actions have been launched against alleged uploaders in the United States, Canada and countries in Europe as the music industry fights to stop piracy which it blames for a decline over a number of years in CD sales.

if i like stuff i buy it. dunno but i think i have a lot more than 500 cds.

i also buy a few cds which are not my musical taste, f.e. from this forum (

), just to support the artist.

sweet_trip · Post by **sweet_trip** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:47 pm

what kind of security people like me have who buy CDs all the time, convert the one or two good songs to mp3s for DJing purposes, and then sell the CD to a retail store, because i have no use for it since it sucks and i only keep the about 10% of all CDs and records i purchase???

Omniphonix · Post by **Omniphonix** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:50 pm

jackson wrote:Yeah, if the cops had warned him a bunch of times before and he kept doing it, then it serves him right.

I DJ, I produce. I feel no enmity towards DJs who earn more than the average producer, life ain't always fair, deal with it. Calling DJs "parasitic" by nature is pretty derogatory, and I definately see a very strong and healthy symbiotic relationship between DJs and producers, well, DJs who either pay for or are given tracks by labels or artists, anyway. DJs play the music, pay royalties per performance(I know it doesn't happen as much as it should, but...), get the songs recognition, and punters go buy the artists music or buy the DJ's mix CD which pays royalties to the track's artists. It's not a perfect system, far from it in fact, but again, that's just how it is.

On the other hand, I have a friend who does exactly what that Italian DJ does, he downloads the very latest, freshest tracks from the net and plays off a laptop. Totally illegal, and as he comes from Chicago, I find it disgusting that he rips off his local scene(that gives him a job!) so blatantly.

Mike

As a producer, I would report his ass. I would feel personally ripped off seeing someone pull that kind of thing. I know way too many musicians who haven't even recouped the cost of their studio from selling tracks. Electronic music is not a cheap art.

Omniphonix · Post by **Omniphonix** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:50 pm

Argh!!!

Omniphonix · Post by **Omniphonix** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:52 pm

Damn KVR server barfing piece of &$%#

Omniphonix · Post by **Omniphonix** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:56 pm

sweet_trip wrote:what kind of security people like me have who buy CDs all the time, convert the one or two good songs to mp3s for DJing purposes, and then sell the CD to a retail store, because i have no use for it since it sucks and i only keep the about 10% of all CDs and records i purchase???

Sounds to me like you need to discover buying MP3s online. Once you sell a CD, you don't have the rights to it anymore. Like if I sold a plugin to somebody, I don't have the right to use it anymore.

sweet_trip · Post by **sweet_trip** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:02 pm

hmmmmm...

2windy · Post by **2windy** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:18 pm

ammoniad wrote:I kind think it is funny. DJs are a parasitic in nature. If muscians did not create music, DJs would starve. I know plenty of Djs who make a lot more money than the guys who produce the CDs they are spinning.
One guy from Chicago gets flown to Paris avery month to spin. He does not have a day job.
Meanwhile, there are a lot of muscians working as waiters, bartenders ect.

Who are the f**king idiots then!!

Are U2 parasitic for doing a world tour?

If listeners stopped listening the musicians would starve! Who do you think go a long way to getting artist accepted then follwed.....DJs possibly?

DwarfNebula · Post by **DwarfNebula** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:21 pm

2windy wrote:...
Are U2 parasitic for doing a world tour?

...

definately yes.

munchkin · Post by **munchkin** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:25 pm

sweet_trip wrote:what kind of security people like me have who buy CDs all the time, convert the one or two good songs to mp3s for DJing purposes, and then sell the CD to a retail store, because i have no use for it since it sucks and i only keep the about 10% of all CDs and records i purchase???

This is a a very good point. Many DJ's, especially popular ones who DJ all the time trade much of their vinyl collection in the second hand stores. A good track may only be fresh for a short while until it's too familiar. The art of DJing is to play fresh sets and that requires the latest club tracks.

More and more DJ's are using laptops. So this DJ may well have been sent all his tracks on vinyl or CD. Working DJ's are sent new releases all the time for free. A popular DJ won't buy his/her music because the record labels use them to promote new tracks in the clubs. The idea that working DJ's buy all their music is a bit naive to say the least. That's definitely NOT how the industry works.

It may well be that this DJ had all this music legitimately. But the Italian equivilant of the RIAA wanted to make an example of someone.

One final point, without DJ's there would be no dance music of any description. Mod, Disco and then House DJ's got clubbing and the dance music industry going. They are the pioneers. I remember dance musicians bringing their tracks down to Heaven, FF and Trade begging the DJ's to play their tracks. These musicians would visit the clubs to get an idea of the competition and go home with new ideas. Pushing the boundaries of what is possible in electronic music.

The reason DJ's are 'superstars' is because they deserve praise for raising the profile of many young musicians. They make music popular by creating a buzz. Never underestimate the influence of the DJ.

Italian DJ fined 1.4 million euros