KVR Audio

galwaypark · Post by **galwaypark** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:58 pm

_starcraft_ wrote:
Jeez wrote:I've composed a few film soundtracks, and I've got another one coming up. It's all contacts. It's who you know. I got my foot in through friends of friends, and I'm still sort of at the beginning. If you want to do music/sound for TV commercials, I guess it's the same sort of thing. Become good friends with whoever's making the decisions.

Forever,

Kim.

so true
music skills really come last in the equation.

I work in an advertising / marketing / design agency, and we often outsource someone to do the music for TV. Most of the time, it's the combination of the two: you have to know someone inside, but you also need to be very skilled, because the deadlines are often demanding, as are the clients. So, yes, our friends sometimes get the job, but only if they are fast, good and reliable enough. Rarely we give the job to someone we don't know to begin with, and we almost never listen to demo cd's. You'l probably find that it's the same in most of the other agencies.

But good luck anyway.

topaz · Post by **topaz** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:59 pm

ok checking

it would be nice to find stuff to download, even 5 minute shorts.

cheers.

tkmattson wrote: See my previous post. It's funny to me, as I am both a musician & a fimmaker, that so many filmmakers can't find soundtracks, and so many musicians can't find films to score. It's a bit like each one is yelling for the other in their own private vacuum. Sheesh.

lavoll · Post by **lavoll** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:00 pm

I'm a "pro".

here's the darkest of all secrets:
you have to talk to people!!!

yuck

You have to do business like.. visit people in their office, ask them what kinds of projects they have coming etc. Be a nice and likeable guy that people would want to work with.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:09 pm

I scored a low budget horror film and an episode of "Tales from the Darkside" (TV series) back in the 80's.

It's all about who you know. You really need to develop contacts.

I don't know how it works for Commercials but it should be pretty easy to get a gig doing a small student film. At least you could build up "legitimacy" and a reel that way.

However this tactic could work both ways. The folks in charge, these days, are so damned ignorant about what the work entails that they might be apt to think that you are good at scoring longer projects but might have reservations about your ability to do shorter projects.

The sad truth is that the media industry is run entirely on fear and stupidity. It's very tough to get validation when these idiots don't even how to tell good from bad and are constantly in fear that the smallest mistake will cost them their jobs.

TexasMusicForge · Post by **TexasMusicForge** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:09 pm

Most markets big enough to have locally-produced commercials still only have a couple of ad agencies that get most of the work. You'll want to make a connection with the artistic director at that ad firm.

Make sure you have a *quality* demo before contacting said artistic director - if you get a first chance and blow it, you won't get a second. Your demo should contain *brief* excerpts of commercials you've composed the music for, even if they're just sample ads for nonexistent products.

It's not enough to just have a good demo, you've got to give a stressed out and suspicious A.D. a reason to use you instead of a tried-and-true subcontractor. Can you turn out work on short notice? Are your rates more affordable? Do you have a musical specialty? Get your marketing mojo together before contacting anyone - do your homework by familiarizing yourself with industry production standards and terminology. Nobody has the time to educate you in the ad biz.

Also, find out what recording studios are getting most of the ad gigs in town and make friends with the engineers over there - engineers talk to *everyone* in the business at some point or another and a friendly word at the right time from a trusted peer is still the best way to get work in this business.

Best of luck and regards to all,

Tio Ed

_starcraft_ · Post by **_starcraft_** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:11 pm

lavoll wrote:I'm a "pro".

here's the darkest of all secrets:
you have to talk to people!!!

yuck

OH NOES!!11!

tkmattson · Post by **tkmattson** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:16 pm

topaz wrote:ok checking

it would be nice to find stuff to download, even 5 minute shorts.

cheers.

tkmattson wrote: See my previous post. It's funny to me, as I am both a musician & a fimmaker, that so many filmmakers can't find soundtracks, and so many musicians can't find films to score. It's a bit like each one is yelling for the other in their own private vacuum. Sheesh.

Guarantee if you check it for a week or two, you'll find at least ten productions looking for soundtracks to send reels to, and a few of those will be fully paid....also you can sign up for a free web page for yourself, and direct them to your site to hear your tunes, etc. In the last year or so, I've landed at least ten jobs from this lil' webpage.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:17 pm

Commercials are just plain horrible to work on anyway. It's alway a miserable fuckin' pain in the ass. You usually have 3 distinct groups involved, the Ad Agency, the Production Company and the Clients. Unless there is some huge name involved, like a Joe Pytka type, none of them will ever be able to make their minds up and all of them have such an equal stake in the project that the buck never stops with anyone.

You're life will be a living hell... trust me.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:20 pm

tkmattson wrote:Guarantee if you check it for a week or two, you'll find at least ten productions looking for soundtracks to send reels to, and a few of those will be fully paid....

And the field is so competitive and filled with talented Artists that those films, that do pay, can get it for a song.

I just finished working on 2 $3million films and the Composer got paid about $25k each. And that included all his expenses!

wrench45us · Post by **wrench45us** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:28 pm

you have to talk to people!!!

yeh, that sort of seals it for me.
put the headphones back on and make some more music.

though if one does have the ability to talk to people and come across as reliable and competent, then making friends with the engineers at local studios would seem to make a lot of sense.
6-12-18 months in a technical broadcast school and you too can be a producer/engineer -- or at least talk the talk well enough to make friends or intern at a studio.

in my part of the country there are lots of unpaid intern positions at various radio stations and most of those places make some money using the on-air talent for local commercials and most of those could be helped with a better music bed.

i know a friend of a friend of a friend who earned an oscar (Academy Award) for sound editing and one might think that might open some doors, but he continues to just get by as a producer/engineer cause he'd rather be working than networking or selling.

tkmattson · Post by **tkmattson** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:32 pm

JohnVulich wrote:
tkmattson wrote:Guarantee if you check it for a week or two, you'll find at least ten productions looking for soundtracks to send reels to, and a few of those will be fully paid....
And the field is so competitive and filled with talented Artists that those films, that do pay, can get it for a song.

I just finished working on 2 $3million films and the Composer got paid about $25k each. And that included all his expenses!

No one ever promised riches for pursuing creative careers, all I'm saying is you CAN get paid enough to live on, despite all the common malarky & "wisdom".

dystonia_ek · Post by **dystonia_ek** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:57 pm

It's all about who you know and being in the right place at the right time. If your music is striking enough that's a bonus, but not enough by itself. Be prepared to have to rework, repeatedly, every little detail to satisfy tasteless producers/directors etc.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:02 pm

tkmattson wrote:No one ever promised riches for pursuing creative careers, all I'm saying is you CAN get paid enough to live on, despite all the common malarky & "wisdom".

I'm speaking from 20 years of experience. Make of it what you will. It gets tougher as time goes on and the bottom line is more important to these guys than ever. There is a lot of money to be made but it's a battle. In the meantime generating a decent income for even a modest lifestyle gets tougher.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:03 pm

dystonia_ek wrote:It's all about who you know and being in the right place at the right time. If your music is striking enough that's a bonus, but not enough by itself. Be prepared to have to rework, repeatedly, every little detail to satisfy tasteless producers/directors etc.

Often times, details that aren't even there!

dystonia_ek · Post by **dystonia_ek** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:18 pm

JohnVulich wrote:
dystonia_ek wrote:It's all about who you know and being in the right place at the right time. If your music is striking enough that's a bonus, but not enough by itself. Be prepared to have to rework, repeatedly, every little detail to satisfy tasteless producers/directors etc.
Often times, details that aren't even there!

So true! Sometimes I just tell 'em I fixed it and they believe me.

Jobs composing/producing music for commercials???...