Guitar pickup replacement problem (solved)

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meeks wrote:I'm sorry, I'm not getting this..the copper is shielding from outside interference? Why copper, just to satisfy my own curiosity?
What you are attempting to make with the copper lining is some sort of Faraday cage to shield out RF and other electrical interference. A conducting mesh or a set of solid conducting walls for a box surrounding your equipment (eg pickups, wiring and switches) will create a zone inside which is relatively immune to extraneous EM radiation.

The better the conduction around the cage, the better the shield - gold and silver are excellent conductors too - you could go with them instead if you prefer ;-)
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Man, I'm sorry to be dense on this...I get you explaination, thanks. What I don't get is the extent of this 'net'. So I tape the wires, the back, but what about the inside around the pots and what not, doesn't seem right. Anyone with a picture of thiers?

Thanks much, and sorry I've had a long day and the brain is just not up to speed.
The armchair is more than the sum of the bastards
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Hi Hink and fellow KvRites,
Ok, here is what I found out with a late night phone call to an expert. Fender and Gretsch did indeed use shielding paint in older models. They stopped using it due to its expense, not because anything else works better. Stew Mac and Allparts both sell it. Google "copper shielding paint" for more information. If anyone knows any Fender or Gretsch historians, this would be in their ballpark.
G.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics ... Paint.html
There is geometry in the humming of the strings, there is music in the spacing of the spheres. Pythagoras
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Here is a link to a good how to article on shielding. It includes using the conductive shielding paint. Someone earlier mentioned aluminum paint, that would work.
http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/shielding/shield3.php
There is geometry in the humming of the strings, there is music in the spacing of the spheres. Pythagoras
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Probably is a stupid question, but here goes anyway......

This could not be

needing a battery (seems "noiseless" fenders were all active at one point)........

Or, maybe a bit less stupid question......it's not designed for "S1" right?

The only reason I bring it up is that I have an amercan/dexluxe/tele/whatever.........and it has the cobalt/noisless/passive pickups.....but with the S1 switch.......

Hink seems to know what he's talking about, but I thought I'd throw it out just incase........

btw, out of all the guitars I have a chance to play regularly (not that I can play mind you :wink: ) these pickups ALWAYS get the most attention from engineers/producers/etc.........
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Another article from the same guy on how to do a Tele. Wasn't that the original poster's axe? Enjoy...
http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/shielding/tele.php
There is geometry in the humming of the strings, there is music in the spacing of the spheres. Pythagoras
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meeks wrote:
Hink wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm not getting this..the copper is shielding from outside interference? Why copper, just to satisfy my own curiosity?
can you think of something better?

http://www.warmoth.com/supplies/supplie ... _shielding
Lead or why not Aluminum? You'll have to excuse me on this, its the first I'm hearing of this. Is there really that much interference out there? Is it going out or coming in or both?...I'm asking because I got guitar rig last week and the brief time that I've got to play on it at the new house, the moniter seemed to interfer, so I'm rather excited about this concept.

Do you just cover the back plate or what?
copper is a much better conducter, so italso stands to reason it would better for sheilding. For instance pick-up sheldings are often steel, however it's a short run, but your better cables will use copper stranded sheilding...solder partially is lead, the reason is because of it's low melting point...for me sheilding tape is a must, if I buy a guitar it gets taped.

It does occur to me that me early 70's fender tele custom (stolen in the early 90's) it was painted black insided the cavity (as was the ax) which on a custom was much larger then a standard tele. The paint was almost like stucko and easily could of been paint on sheilding paint. TBH because at the time I still lived with my father and he was an electronic engineer we sheilded it as soon as I brought it home from Texas.

I couldn't find a cost on the copper paint but I did find a fender page about it (maybe I didn't look deep enough) but the all parts page is annoying. Ironically last winter I made an order with them cause they sell the 25 and 50k pots needed for EMG's, plus their pots are cheaper then warmoth...I was quite dispointed when they didn't inform me of a minimum and I was charged a service charge. But there site was good then (btw they waived the surcgharge)

But I do know that warmoth sells two inch tape fairly cheap, an average guitar I imagine would run you between 5 and 10 usd.

@ Ian, I hope you are not using a 100 watt gun for soldering, best is a variable iron, it's my feeling you should never exceed 30/35 watts. :wink:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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geoffrey wrote:Another article from the same guy on how to do a Tele. Wasn't that the original poster's axe? Enjoy...
http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/shielding/tele.php
I maybe mistaken but shy of the foil, that is pretty much what I said...even down to leaving some to overlap...;)
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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susiwong wrote:Congrats, those Vintage Noiseless PUs are great !
I got them in several guitars, they sound fantastic live and recorded and are as quiet as you will ever get.
Thanks, I hope so..........when I manage to fit them.
BUT ... I recently fixed a Strat where somebody had fitted Vintage Noiseless PUs and the controls weren't working correctly. By comparing the included schematic (which I normally never use) to the actual circuit I noticed that THE INCLUDED SCHEMATIC IS WRONG, at least with the Strat set. They forgot to ground the free lug of the volume pot .
Beginner's error, if you ask me.
Don't know about the Tele set, though.
Doublecheck your wiring with the correct circuit given here :
http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/su ... 6tele.html
You can find all kinds of pickup wirings here :
I've just checked the included schematic against the link, it's correct. What's really puzzling me, is that it's slightly different to how the original pickups were connected :?
http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/su ... tics.shtml
Also, I myself like the sound of VNs better with the stock wiring (250 K pots etc.) than with the included higher resistance pots. YMMV.

Hope that helps,
susiwong
Just to be on the safe side, in case I need to start from scratch, I've ordered a set of original Fender 250 K pot's and selector switch.

Thanks for the advice everyone :D Nice to see this thread has broadend out a bit as well :D
RIP Black Tom and Beckett. They weren't just cats, they were MY cats, the best cats ever.
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meeks wrote:Man, I'm sorry to be dense on this...I get you explaination, thanks. What I don't get is the extent of this 'net'. So I tape the wires, the back, but what about the inside around the pots and what not, doesn't seem right.
Most scratchplates for strats I that have played around with had a metal foil stuck on the back of the plate over the control cavity area. I think you are correct that the cage is going to have gaps and the P/Ups and pots are vulnerable to some degree. Single coil p/ups are great ariels for hum and noise of course.
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egbert wrote:
meeks wrote:Man, I'm sorry to be dense on this...I get you explaination, thanks. What I don't get is the extent of this 'net'. So I tape the wires, the back, but what about the inside around the pots and what not, doesn't seem right.
Most scratchplates for strats I that have played around with had a metal foil stuck on the back of the plate over the control cavity area. I think you are correct that the cage is going to have gaps and the P/Ups and pots are vulnerable to some degree. Single coil p/ups are great ariels for hum and noise of course.
you're right about the foil on pickgaurds and cavity plates, but that foil is why the overlap of the tape is essential for a good connection...and of course grounding/earthing the sheild.

However there is one other way to get less noise (still sheild it) but go emg. they're a closed system...never a ground issue, they're low impedance which is nice for recording and long runs and they kick ass...;)
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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getting pick-ups potted will reduce feedback as well...;)
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.
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Hink wrote: However there is one other way to get less noise (still sheild it) but go emg. they're a closed system...never a ground issue, they're low impedance which is nice for recording and long runs and they kick ass...;)
Yeah they work fine for me too. I would like to try the Kinmans though.
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F#ck F#ck F#ck F#ck F#ck F#ck...need I say more?
Got the official Fender 3 way switch and pots this morning :D but the same f#cking problem :x How hard can it be to follow a schematic diagram? (obviously too hard for me :oops: :hihi:) Off to price 'help' from my local guitar shop later.....oh, the shame of it :oops:
RIP Black Tom and Beckett. They weren't just cats, they were MY cats, the best cats ever.
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Mystery solved :D :D :D :D :D

My local guitar technician has just phoned me, he's found/solved the problem, it was a pickup fault. He had exactly the same problem I had when fitting the new pickups, but after a bit of digging, it was something as simple as a loose/broken copper wire on the pickup coil, that was causing a 'short'

I'll have it back early next week :D :D :D :D :D

I asked him if he'd ever heard of this make of guitar, he hadn't, so I asked him how much he thought I'd paid for it. He hasn't restrung it yet, so hasn't heard or played it, and just going off build quality, he guessed around £350 upwards. I told him £130 :D he'll be extra gobsmacked when he's restrung it and actually played it :wink:
RIP Black Tom and Beckett. They weren't just cats, they were MY cats, the best cats ever.
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