What hosts can load itself as a vst or dxi?

[jouni]

I understand Sonar doesn't even support VST natively.. VSTs only work through VST->DX adapter.

Just to add to my above post: do you think Orion is supporting VSTi and DXi natively, or could it be that hidden away inside Orion's code there is some wrapping going on?

I really don't get your point here, or the question?

[snooky]

.

I'm sure Sonar is terrific. Just a bit of a shock that it's not really a VSTi host; that it only does VSTi with an emulation layer.

This one again! Whenever Sonar gets mentioned around here, the old wrapper thing rears it's head...even though it is a non-issue. Nearly all hosts use a wrapper of some sort, it is just not referred to as a wrapper (in most cases) and runs at startup, rather than separately like Cakewalk's does. FLStudio even refers to it's VST/DX part as the FL Wrapper...yet we never hear cries about FL using a wrapper.

There is no major disadvantage to using a separate wrapper...in fact, the opposite is true. The wrapper being separate means that if Cakewalk update this with bug fixes/new features, then users need only download one file to update the wrapper, rather than a bunch of patches to update all the Cakewalk software they own.

Just a final question: does Logic get this accusation thrown at it from users of other software on the Mac? That it has to use a wrapper for VST plugins as it doesn't host VST natively?

Bravo!!

Very true..Sonar is surely one of the best hosts around, and I don't even use it!! I'm on Logic 5.51 for pc, but I'm realtively sure that I'll get sonar when logic get's to old.

[snooky]

I understand Sonar doesn't even support VST natively.. VSTs only work through VST->DX adapter.

Just to add to my above post: do you think Orion is supporting VSTi and DXi natively, or could it be that hidden away inside Orion's code there is some wrapping going on?

I really don't get your point here, or the question?

hm...lemme try xylyx.

Mark Vera: DO YOU THINK THAT THERE IS A VST WRAPPER a lá SONAR-4/LOGIC-7/FL STUDIO-5 INSIDE ORION?? THERE COULD BE, NO?

[jens]

I understand Sonar doesn't even support VST natively.. VSTs only work through VST->DX adapter.

Just to add to my above post: do you think Orion is supporting VSTi and DXi natively, or could it be that hidden away inside Orion's code there is some wrapping going on?

I really don't get your point here, or the question?

hm...lemme try xylyx.

Mark Vera: DO YOU THINK THAT THERE IS A VST WRAPPER a lá SONAR-4/LOGIC-7/FL STUDIO-5 INSIDE ORION?? THERE COULD BE, NO?

I agree with you point and it's true that this comnstant mentioning of the 'wrapper' is a little bit
annoying. Fact is there's no real difference to a built-in wrapper (or to native vst-support if such a thing exists)

[stefancrs]

I understand Sonar doesn't even support VST natively.. VSTs only work through VST->DX adapter.

Just to add to my above post: do you think Orion is supporting VSTi and DXi natively, or could it be that hidden away inside Orion's code there is some wrapping going on?

The difference between "natively" and using a separate wrapper is that... The native version is coded directly within the application to support the VST interface. What would you consider being "native" vst support?

[jens]

I understand Sonar doesn't even support VST natively.. VSTs only work through VST->DX adapter.

Just to add to my above post: do you think Orion is supporting VSTi and DXi natively, or could it be that hidden away inside Orion's code there is some wrapping going on?

The difference between "natively" and using a separate wrapper is that... The native version is coded directly within the application to support the VST interface. What would you consider being "native" vst support?

I think that was Xylyx' point - the only difference is that the code that's needed to load vst-plugins is loaded dynamically instead of being integrated with the rest of the application. For the end-user there's no real difference.

Oh and just for the record:
afaik FL is coded in Delphi and I thinkthat's the reasonthey call it 'wrapper'.

Major parts of eXT are coded in Delphi as well afaik so I think there'd be the need for some kind of translation as well, right?

[stefancrs]

As long as the wrapper is transparent, I don't understand what the fuss is about either.
If you, yourself, have to load the wrapper etc, then it'd be annoying

[jens]

As long as the wrapper is transparent, I don't understand what the fuss is about either.
If you, yourself, have to load the wrapper etc, then it'd be annoying

exactly - but you don't have to and thus it really doesn't matter but nonetheless it's the first thing people mention when they criticize Sonar.

[stefancrs]

it's called ignorance, and it's a bliss!

[james0tucson]

This one again! Whenever Sonar gets mentioned around here, the old wrapper thing rears it's head...even though it is a non-issue.

Ok, it's a non-issue I guess.

I'm way more interested in the comparison between Orion and Sonar4. One is said to be inferior to the other, but they are the same price ($150 for the basic version).

[jmh]

The other one is a sequencer, the other one a virtual studio

[Stupid American Pig]

This one again! Whenever Sonar gets mentioned around here, the old wrapper thing rears it's head...even though it is a non-issue.

Ok, it's a non-issue I guess.

I'm way more interested in the comparison between Orion and Sonar4. One is said to be inferior to the other, but they are the same price ($150 for the basic version).

They're completely differnt tools intended for different purposes, though each can do just about everything that the other can, the workflow is just different. My workflow dictates that sonar is the best choice for me. I record alot of live audio, and occasionally multitrack several things at once. Sonar allows this and lets me rewire in reason, Use FL studio Dxi, and any VST I want.

For yer purposes Orion may be best, or it may not and Sonar will do the trick.

[jens]

The other one is a sequencer, the other one a virtual studio

old fashioned terms...

Sonar Home Studio might have one or two advanced sequencer-functions more (notation?) - Orion on the other hand comes with loads of high quality synths and fx.

The biggest difference is imo that Orion's sequencer workflow sucks big-time , while Sonar's sequencer workflow sucks just a bit...

[xylyx]

I understand Sonar doesn't even support VST natively.. VSTs only work through VST->DX adapter.

Just to add to my above post: do you think Orion is supporting VSTi and DXi natively, or could it be that hidden away inside Orion's code there is some wrapping going on?

The difference between "natively" and using a separate wrapper is that... The native version is coded directly within the application to support the VST interface. What would you consider being "native" vst support?

The thing with hosts that support both VSTi and DXi is that one or the other is being wrapped. I believe that it is impossible to natively host both types as the way the plugin hosts have to deal with info from one or the other type, is intrinsically different. Hence, whichever is supported natively, the other will be wrapped to make it conform to what the host is expecting...the apps that host both types just hide this internally and so the user doesn't see it.

[xylyx]

I'm way more interested in the comparison between Orion and Sonar4. One is said to be inferior to the other, but they are the same price ($150 for the basic version).

To bastardise a cliche: Inferiority is in the eye of the beholder

It really depends what you want from a host...I have a number of hosts and none of them do everything the way I would like. As to Orion and Sonar, I don't like Orion's mixer but love Sonar's...however, it seems there are many others who feel the opposite to me, which is fine.

I don't get involved in host wars as it is utterly pointless; everyone wants something different. The only time I jump in on debates like that is if someone is posting false information or offering an opinion that is based on ignorance (or hearsay)...beyond that, people should choose what works best for them.