MusicDevelopments

yellukhan · Post by **yellukhan** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:34 pm

Support page... i was looking to the site /support
it was front of my big nose

thanks for your patience.

by dragging the left edge of phrase i was hoping:

RC_LeftEdge.gif

or am i missing something obvious?

"Phrase preview shows note accents/velocities" got it now .
Thanks.

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:27 pm

I see! I am sorry I misunderstood you!
Damn! Maybe how it works now makes no sense at all?

como baila · Post by **como baila** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:25 pm

I don't think this is a 'bug' ... more of a design decision/ issue, but it fits with the current comment by yellukhan regarding left-sided resizing of the phrase.

The behavior I get is that phrase gets smaller and starts later from the left side, but maintains the same beginning note sequence. This is what also would be accomplished by dragging the right side of the phrase to the left and then dragging the entire phrase to the right. The lengths and rhythm of the original phrase is preserved ... it just starts later or on a different note if a chord change occurs.

The behavior I was hoping for is a little different. Lets say there was a 16 beat phrase but I did not like the first four beats. In one case I might want to reposition the phrase to the left so that beats 1 to 4 were eliminated and the phrase now began on beat 5. In the other case, I want the phrase to remain in the same place in the timeline for starting, but I wanted beats 1-4 to be eliminated. In other words I wanted to change the note onset point in the generated note rhythm. This behavior still does not seem possible either in the phrase generator or a rendered phrase.

I'd like to know how others understood "dragging a phrase from the left" and what behavior they were hoping for.

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:30 pm

Greetings como,
I haven't given much thought to the use of this feature; mainly due to lack of time; however, I would think it should work by deleting notes along the drag point. At least that would be my preference.

It occurs to me you can sort of do what you are wanting by splitting the phrase at a point and then deleting the unwanted phrase section. (Or moving it to another location as a safe guard in case you change the mind.)

As for the start location you would have to move the phrase to the intended start position.

These work-arounds are not as eloquent but will still give the desired results.

I agree with you though that it should delete the unwanted portions of a phrase; however, I'm not sure if it will be possible to program a "same" starting point when deleting the information. In other words, the starting point will remain at the stop point of the drag and to get the phrase to start in a new position will require dragging the phrase to the required position.

As good as Attila is though I'm sure he will figure something out!

Happy Musiking!
dsan

como baila · Post by **como baila** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:43 pm

dsan wrote: "I agree with you though that it should delete the unwanted portions of a phrase; however, I'm not sure if it will be possible to program a "same" starting point when deleting the information. In other words, the starting point will remain at the stop point of the drag and to get the phrase to start in a new position will require dragging the phrase to the required position."

These things are difficult to put into words and I am not as adept as some at making illustrations.

However, what you say is clear to me. If you eliminate the first notes ... say beats 1-4, but want beats 5-16 to play beginning where 1-4 were, then you would of course have to drag the phrase forward 4 beats. That was one scenario I was trying to describe. The other was where you just want beats 5-16 of my example to begin and play through at the same point in the time line, but just want beat 1-4 eliminated.

The alternative idea to accomplish this efficiently would to be able to drag a mute 'mask' from left to right ... or even right to left within the phrase ... and even perhaps more than one mute 'mask' My idea is that the underlying notes could still be seen but would be muted. Then you could drag the phrase to reposition various starting points.

But, yes. The main purpose is maintain the note rhythm of part of the phrase while eliminating some of the notes. Whether the phrase then had to be dragged to a new position so it would play as you'd like is a secondary consideration in my view.

como baila · Post by **como baila** » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:46 pm

It also occurs to me that some of this could be done by taking a phrase to the phrase editor ... but then it would become a rendered phrase, not a generator. Preserving the generator phrase and its ghost phrases while being able to mask 'mute' some of the notes of any phrase while working in the composition window would be much, much more powerful creatively.

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:51 am

como baila, you've got a point there. The first notes of a phrase generator simply cannot be removed, only by masking. I think I could come up with something that works in a few days. The full solution for masking which I imagine by editing mask start/end positions below a phrase will come later, it is slightly more work.

I had a similar idea earlier about editing note positions (thus changing the rhythm even for phrase generators) in the composition window. I think that would be useful too.

yellukhan · Post by **yellukhan** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:14 pm

musicdevelopments wrote:I see! I am sorry I misunderstood you!
Damn! Maybe how it works now makes no sense at all?

not sure but might be useful in some point ...
i wish making the gif was come to my mind earlier
...
if this make sense i am also ok with this slide the content behavior,
actually this is better example than the first gif to describe in my point.

RC_LeftEdge-2.gif

como baila · Post by **como baila** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:54 pm

musicdevelopments wrote:como baila, you've got a point there. The first notes of a phrase generator simply cannot be removed, only by masking. I think I could come up with something that works in a few days. The full solution for masking which I imagine by editing mask start/end positions below a phrase will come later, it is slightly more work.

I had a similar idea earlier about editing note positions (thus changing the rhythm even for phrase generators) in the composition window. I think that would be useful too.

Yes, I can see how something like an automation channel below the phrase could be used ... but actually I don't think this is that good a solution unless the activity in that channel could be moved with the phrase.

I say 'mask,' but that is really only a method to mute one or more phrase elements (I don't want to call them 'notes' as that obscures their dynamic function ... but don't really know how you name them!) in a linear fashion.

Really, if there were simply a way to select and mute the phrase elements directly in the phrase in the composition window it would solve everything. Then the muted elements would remain in the phrase wherever it was moved and however otherwise it was effected by the resizing mode. What is great about this is that the underlying rhythmic structure is always preserved and recoverable. I think this is what I am really hoping for. I saw left side resizing as a way to this, but now see it is not as good an idea.

como baila · Post by **como baila** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:58 pm

I also thought that this might be done, i.e., muting phrase elements, in the phrase inspector in the grid showing the current phrase and then applying just the parameters (now with a few phrase elements muted) to the phrase in the composition.

Once the sequence of generated phrases can be recalled in the phrase inspector, this will be even more powerful.

thebutler · Post by **thebutler** » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:31 pm

yellukhan wrote:
musicdevelopments wrote:I see! I am sorry I misunderstood you!
Damn! Maybe how it works now makes no sense at all?
not sure but might be useful in some point ...
i wish making the gif was come to my mind earlier
...
if this make sense i am also ok with this slide the content behavior,
actually this is better example than the first gif to describe in my point.

RC_LeftEdge-2.gif

Interesting/amazing... I just run into this very 'issue' today, after just a few minutes use..! I hadn't been able to dive into RC so much of late; got a chance today - and what I needed straight away was some ability to 'shorten' the front of a phrase BUT leave all other elements/timings in their place.

So, (BTW thank you Yellukhan, for the free custom-phrases..!) the technique shown in this second *.GIF of yours, may well have its uses...

However, I would like to vote for a big +1 to see an ability in RC that you showed in your first *.GIF a few posts above. (I think como baila is basically suggesting/asking for the same thing...

)

the butler

EDIT [oops..! - sorry, of course, this is a feature request, not a bug report]

tonedef71 · Post by **tonedef71** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:58 am

After recently losing all my custom phrases to the RC uninstaller program, I decided to explicitly specify a new directory to use for custom phrases in the Settings/Directories tab. Inside my custom folder were the free phrases contributed by Chris Caulder.

After browsing to the custom folder and selecting it, RC became unresponsive:

As an experiment, I removed all but one of the phrases in the custom folder. I restarted RC, set the custom folder in the settings tab, and once again, RC became unresponsive. Clearly, the number of files already in the folder did not make any difference -- or did it? For my next experiment, I removed all of the files out of the custom folder. I restarted RC, set the custom folder in the settings tab again, and this time, RC worked fine. I decided to try one more experiment: I closed RC, and copied the phrases back into the custom folder. I restarted RC, and it hung again; this time while displaying the "Loading libraries..." in the splash dialog box:

It seems like RC is caught in an endless loop while reading phrases from my custom folder on the root of the C:\ drive.

[EDIT: I also tried with RC v2.5.5; same issue.]

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:01 pm

Hi tonedef71,

although I could not reproduce this issue (tried using the same directory on Win8 and Win7), a fix was added to make sure that the program exits from the loop when reading phrases.

The latest beta is available now (v2.56b2) with this fix.
Please let me know if it still does not work.

Thanks,
Attila

musicdevelopments · Post by **musicdevelopments** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:05 pm

thebutler wrote:However, I would like to vote for a big +1 to see an ability in RC that you showed in your first *.GIF a few posts above. (I think como baila is basically suggesting/asking for the same thing... )

Hi!

I am happy to announce that both types of adjustment is available in the latest beta version (v2.56b2) that was uploaded today.
Dragging the left edge now works as expected, and it is possible to Shift-drag the phrase events left and right inside the phrase:

Make sure you read the history under the 'Support' tab.
You can make the help delay shorter in the settings...
I am grateful for all your suggestions, thank you!

Attila

como baila · Post by **como baila** » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:15 pm

musicdevelopments wrote:
thebutler wrote:However, I would like to vote for a big +1 to see an ability in RC that you showed in your first *.GIF a few posts above. (I think como baila is basically suggesting/asking for the same thing... )
Hi!

I am happy to announce that both types of adjustment is available in the latest beta version (v2.56b2) that was uploaded today.
Dragging the left edge now works as expected, and it is possible to Shift-drag the phrase events left and right inside the phrase:

Make sure you read the history under the 'Support' tab.
You can make the help delay shorter in the settings...
I am grateful for all your suggestions, thank you!

Attila

Fabulous!

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