Is the Sylenth 1 still good?

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pdxindy wrote:
Like I said, Sylenth was smartly designed. The flaws are fairly well hidden because it does not do much that reveals them. That is one of the reasons various features are not there. PWM, Sync, Ring Mod, Filter FM etc. Users asked and asked for them.
As far as I understood it, he wanted to keep the cpu usage reasonable and these extras would have cost a fair bit at the time, so it was designed as a simple architecture with focus on the raw sound. I don't think being simple is a design flaw if it has a reason. I would agree that I'd very much like to see some of these added by now, but clearly development hasn't been much of a focus. We're lucky we finally got 64bit mac and the recent GUI updates. Hopefully some features will get added.
pdxindy wrote: Filter designs are significantly better today. Drive/distortion and FX have all improved too. Look at the software reverbs available today vs 10 years ago. On basically every front, advances have continued. Synths are much better today. The consistent quality and diversity of sound under a wide range of situations is much better today. Look at the soft-sync you can get today vs 10 years ago. Etc.
I agree about the reverb and about synths in general in the early years of VSTs. But you hit a point of diminishing returns in synth quality improvements where it starts to only make sense in achieving a specific goal like analog modelling. As far as a filter being pleasing to the ear, I think sylenth1's filter is very nice sounding and I know many agree because of the popularity of the synth. There won't be a time when a good sound becomes not good anymore because of new technology, regardless of "quality" improvements. Lexicon reverbs are a testament to this.
fisherking wrote:
pdxindy wrote: I remember when there were constant threads comparing various softsynths to the Virus. That has passed. Sylenth's day has come and is nearly gone too. In another year, two at the most, there will not be threads like this one. It will linger on with some sentimental value.
you could make the same argument for analog synths, or any 'classic' equipment. yet people worship these things (not me, lol). outside of momentary trends (wobble bass, anyone?), a good sound is a good sound... and the music-makers will get to that, with whatever tool works for them... which is why i re-added sylenth1 to my setup after an absence of about 2 years. i liked it before, i like it now. just like i enjoy using newer tools (ie spire, serum). whatever works... 8)
This is exactly how I feel. Good is good. Older VST synths aren't worse because they are older. They are worse generally because they are just worse. In that people generally don't find them as pleasing to listen to. But it's all down to the actual design and algorithms. For example, the FM8 has the same basic sound as the FM7, but with a bunch of bells and whistles. People still like it and always will. The FM7 was a very early VST synth but the design is such that people will always like it. Older analog type VST synths not so much because they didn't do a great job at their aim, which was to replicate analog gear.

Also, it hasn't been that long since a thread about getting the virus sound. People still compare them to VSTs like Spire. That's another case of a sound that people will always like.

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The reverb is not that bad when setting it right. The damp control for instance is there for a reason.
It is good enough for single patches. It is not supposed to be an external reverb effect that can be used for entire mixes.
I use the reverb on almost every patch, simply to give the patch more dimension. Of course the size is often set close to zero so that there is no reverb tail as such.

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Echoes in the Attic wrote:
pdxindy wrote: Filter designs are significantly better today. Drive/distortion and FX have all improved too. Look at the software reverbs available today vs 10 years ago. On basically every front, advances have continued. Synths are much better today. The consistent quality and diversity of sound under a wide range of situations is much better today. Look at the soft-sync you can get today vs 10 years ago. Etc.
I agree about the reverb and about synths in general in the early years of VSTs. But you hit a point of diminishing returns in synth quality improvements where it starts to only make sense in achieving a specific goal like analog modelling. As far as a filter being pleasing to the ear, I think sylenth1's filter is very nice sounding and I know many agree because of the popularity of the synth. There won't be a time when a good sound becomes not good anymore because of new technology, regardless of "quality" improvements. Lexicon reverbs are a testament to this.
The Sylenth filter is ok... The drive can have an unappealing character to it... high resonance is meh (except in a couple sweet spots)... low end tends to incoherence... fairly typical of older digital filters. Newer filters today (like Cytomic, U-he, NI etc) sound/perform better across a wide range of uses and especially when pushed.

I liked my first digital camera and took thousands of photos with many published. It served me well and I have no complaint about it but I would never go back to it. The camera I have today is much better in how it renders images under a variety of situations. The new breed of filters today are like that. They are flat out better.

It's totally fine if someone wants to use an old digital camera. There is no fundamental conflict between that and saying the image quality of newer cameras is better. Both can happily coexist. Same with audio filters. The sound quality of the new breed of filters is better. The science/art of digital filter design has made tangible advances. And its okay if someone likes and wants to use an older one. Those are two separate considerations.

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What's the point of being better when it doesn't sound better 8)
Like with CD's vs vinyl. In theory CD's are superior, but many people still prefer vinyl because of its charismatic imperfections. Vinyl sounds better to them. After all, the human ear and mind are not a signal analyzer.
Last edited by fluffy_little_something on Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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pdxindy wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
pdxindy wrote: Filter designs are significantly better today. Drive/distortion and FX have all improved too. Look at the software reverbs available today vs 10 years ago. On basically every front, advances have continued. Synths are much better today. The consistent quality and diversity of sound under a wide range of situations is much better today. Look at the soft-sync you can get today vs 10 years ago. Etc.
I agree about the reverb and about synths in general in the early years of VSTs. But you hit a point of diminishing returns in synth quality improvements where it starts to only make sense in achieving a specific goal like analog modelling. As far as a filter being pleasing to the ear, I think sylenth1's filter is very nice sounding and I know many agree because of the popularity of the synth. There won't be a time when a good sound becomes not good anymore because of new technology, regardless of "quality" improvements. Lexicon reverbs are a testament to this.
The Sylenth filter is ok... The drive can have an unappealing character to it... high resonance is meh (except in a couple sweet spots)... low end tends to incoherence... fairly typical of older digital filters. Newer filters today (like Cytomic, U-he, NI etc) sound/perform better across a wide range of uses and especially when pushed.

I liked my first digital camera and took thousands of photos with many published. It served me well and I have no complaint about it but I would never go back to it. The camera I have today is much better in how it renders images under a variety of situations. The new breed of filters today are like that. They are flat out better.

It's totally fine if someone wants to use an old digital camera. There is no fundamental conflict between that and saying the image quality of newer cameras is better. Both can happily coexist. Same with audio filters. The sound quality of the new breed of filters is better. The science/art of digital filter design has made tangible advances. And its okay if someone likes and wants to use an older one. Those are two separate considerations.
Again, as long as you don't define "sound quality", it's a useless term, especially when it's perceived very differently from different people. I can only guess that you mean the level of detail put into modelling the digital filter after it's analog counterpart. I would agree that it surely isn't the state of the art level of analog modelling in a filter in Sylenth1, the question is, how relevant is it? Obviously very irrelevant for a lot of people professionally producing music, otherwise they'd just use analog synths. I believe we're still arguing mainly about taste here. Maybe rather digital synths are just not your cup of tea.

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I read older reviews before I bought Sylenth, and there they often praised how analog it sounds :hihi: I don't know and care whether it does or not, just saying...

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Some also say that Z3TA is especially good for analog sounds, but anyone who ever did a filter sweep in it, or listened to the harsh digital oscillators will be able to tell that this isn't really the case. :P Not that i think Sylenth1 is bad for that, but, like you, i don't care much about how well it does analog sounds anyway. For me, it's rather the character of the filters, and the synth itself which is interesting.

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So Sylenth1 doesn't have PWM ? (well, not without tricks)
:-o
Dúnedain

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Dúnedain wrote:So Sylenth1 doesn't have PWM ? (well, not without tricks)
:-o
No, it doesn't.

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No, that is the one thing LD should have added over the years.
One has to waste an entire layer to produce a pulse signal (unless one is happy with the three fixed-width signals provided per osc).

When using an LFO on such an indirectly produced pulse signal, the result is sometimes odd in my view.

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chk071 wrote:
Dúnedain wrote:So Sylenth1 doesn't have PWM ? (well, not without tricks)
:-o
No, it doesn't.

Probably the reason it is such an CPU efficient synth?
Dúnedain

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True Confessions time.

After listening to the Sylenth1 demos, if money wasn't so tight right now, at $99 I'd probably get it. The sound is fine. It does have its own character and I'm sure I could probably find a place for it. Certainly as much as any of the other 100 VSTs that I own that aren't really all that "special" as far as sound goes. Meaning nothing else sounds anything like them. That would be confined to a handful of synths at best.

But aside from money being tight, there is another concern.

It's an old synth. And from what I'm hearing, not one where a lot of updates are made. If it weren't for the fact that the synth is so popular that almost everybody seems to be using it, I'd be concerned that support for it would suddenly vanish. I mean look what happened to Alchemy for Windows users and nobody saw that coming.

I feel more confident with a company like U-he or Native Instruments. Even Spectrasonics instills more confidence in me as far as support.

Now, this isn't to say that I haven't bought synths from companies that may very well be gone tomorrow. I have. But I try to avoid doing that these days with money being so tight. In fact, the only reason I recently bought Falcon, which is a hell of a lot more expensive than Sylenth1, is because (1) I have a lot of confidence in UVI and (2) The synth is a powerhouse. It is absolutely my personal favorite right now as there seems to be nothing it can't do.

Today, a synth would have to be that special, from a company that I trust that much in order for me to get it.

Sylenth1 is just not in that league, IMO.

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What do you mean by support? Sylenth is solid, I only know of one bug, which will be fixed with the new Windows update.
After that, if LD ceased operation, I probably wouldn't care, frankly. It's not like a car, where things break over time. If Sylenth is solid now, it will continue to do so for years, until new operating systems are no longer compatible.

I agree on Falcon. I suppose if I had that, I might no longer need any other synth, either.

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i abandoned sylenth 1 when logic went 64bit. before that (and after that), i begged lennard for a 64bit AU for mac. NEVER heard back about it. YEARS passed, and now, finally, there's a 64bit AU. so...i recently bought sylenth1 again (had sold my license, here at kvr).

worth the wait? sure. and i've added other synths in the meantime that filled in that gap. great support? depends on how you look at the years-long wait for the AU. but i'm glad to have it back in my arsenal, it's exceptional just for what it is...
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