Best Piano - PIANOTEQ

[oscarolarte]

As promised. Hope you like.

[Uncle E]

As promised. Hope you like.

So when are you going to turn this into a full documentary film about acoustic instruments in a digital age? The video and editing quality is exceptional.

Anyway, when listening to the audio examples back-to-back like this, I found it very easy to hear which was Pianoteq and which was the real piano. However, I don't think I would know if I was listening to them independently.

[oscarolarte]

!!Good idea!!, can I borrow your idea??, full documentary film about acoustic instruments in a digital age?, 50 minutes format, maybe 6 episodes, talking about instruments, music for film, tv, video games, psicoascoustic, perception, and talking about all the myths and misconceptions.

I will start working on the script.

Thanks

[Dostoyevsky]

Very well made!

[Michael L]

It's a delight to watch your collaboration. A helpful criticism: you ask three detailed questions starting at 0:49, and an overall challenge question at 1:22. It would be good to revisit those questions, add some technical detail, and perhaps some comparative acoustic data from analyses, e.g. of harmonics. In that way you contribute a relevant set of tools and terminology for future exploration in this field.

[realtrance]

That was a wonderful, clear introduction to a fascinating subject, thank you for the video!

I wonder whether you might be able to collaborate directly with Pianoteq, interview the right people at some length about the process they went through (maintaining respect, of course, for any trade secrets) in the tuning of Pianoteq to emulate various instruments?

That could be highly educational, and interesting, and reveal to the audience just how much care and detail goes into making just one emulation out of the Pianoteq software.

Or, it could be part of a documentary series.

I wonder whether Stuart Isacoff, who wrote a very insightful generalist book on the history of the piano, might also be interested in participating?

[JonHolstein]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, sample based piano instruments, do not simply play back a recording. The sustain part is actually sythesized and not an audio file simply beeing played back.
So what you get isn't an exact copy of the original sound. Like some seem to think.

There are probably those instruments that synthesize other parts of the sound as well, like velocity interpolation.

Some use modelling for the parts that are not the actual sample (roland did with supernatural, with the new supernatural modelling piano, it's a bit unclear if it's all modelled now, I first thought so, but after beeing challenged on that I went back and read again, and that time I did not find any confirmation that it's completely modelled this time, even if I at first got that impression).


It seems to me, like some wants to claim that a sample based piano actually plays back something real.
But as far as I know, that isn't quite true.
So the notion that a sample is at least the real thing, even if it doesn't offer all the experession you might want, is af far as I know incorret.


Also, some like the room sound that comes with samples.
Like some commented that becomes unnatural as it will play the sound in a room, but then return to a silcence, even though some of that room sound would still keep sounding, as long as the song is going on.
There is a reason why studios are often as acousticly dead as possible, so there are no inconsistensies.


Then there are all those matters of resonances and striking a string that is not completely still.


I'm not listening to a lot of piano pieces, but in music, one thing I often react to is chords.
Chords seems like a weak spot with many digital pianos.


Also I like a bit of imperfections in the sound. Since I don't listen that much to piano pieces, I expect that the piano won't be perfectly tuned for a recording, and not perfectly redonditioned.
I know there are sample packs for that, but I really like that pianoteq offers controls over those things, and I think that feature is missing from a lot of sample based piano instruments, so if you find a few favourites for "perfect" sounding pianos, you would have to use another pack for those imperfect sounds, and then probably based on other piano models than the one, used for the perfect parts.


I don't own any good Piano sample instruments, and I do not own Pianoteq.
I've listened to a lot of demos of different digital piano instruments, and I don't think Pianoteq sounds perfect, but to me it seems like one of the most exciting options out there.

[Uncle E]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, sample based piano instruments, do not simply play back a recording. The sustain part is actually sythesized and not an audio file simply beeing played back.
So what you get isn't an exact copy of the original sound. Like some seem to think.

Sorry, this isn't correct. They are playing back a recording.

Also I like a bit of imperfections in the sound.

This is the basis of the technique of Imperfect Samples. They're a very popular company for that reason and you'd probably like their stuff.

[Taurus]

All the great NI Kontakt pianos playback only samples. In most cases sample playback is all you need. Sampleplayback is extremely low on cpu usage. If you want better quality, all you have to do is increase the samples and/or improve the recording situation.

[Ingonator]

There seem to be Kontakt scripts to add symphetic resonance while some developers seem to use only the sampled sympatheteic resonance.

Also for sustain resonance there seem to be approaches using IR convolution or samping this directly.

Adding stero width with convolution is possible too.

Some stuff like e.g. opening/closing the lid of the piano are done by using a Lowpass filter (for example in NI The Grandeur and The Maverick).

Actually proper scripting could make a huge difference, not just good samples.

For example NI The Grandeur and NI The Maverick (and also others) got so many controls to tweak the sound that they are close to a modeled paino in that respect.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Hope you like.

I did

[EvilDragon]

Some stuff like e.g. opening/closing the lid of the piano are done by using a Lowpass filter (for example in NI The Grandeur and The Maverick).

Which is an entirely wrong way to go about it, since it's not just a simple lowpass filter at work in real life.

[JonHolstein]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, sample based piano instruments, do not simply play back a recording. The sustain part is actually sythesized and not an audio file simply beeing played back.
So what you get isn't an exact copy of the original sound. Like some seem to think.

Sorry, this isn't correct. They are playing back a recording.

Are you really sure about that?
Are they really playing back a unmanipulated recording of a note? (using sample manipulation, to try to create a sound that is found in a real instrument, is a form of sytnhesis; Sample/synthesis, sometimes called S/S)
Do you know a current sampled piano instrument, that has no manipulation going on in the sustain part?

[EvilDragon]

That would be almost all of them, except those that are combined sampling and synthesis (like TruePianos) - but then again, even those are not modeling the sustain phase, they are modeling the resonances, pedal behaviour, etc.

Full note decays are sampled, then played back. Really nothing other than that happens in the sustain phase.

[Uncle E]

Are you really sure about that?
Are they really playing back a unmanipulated recording of a note? (using sample manipulation, to try to create a sound that is found in a real instrument, is a form of sytnhesis; Sample/synthesis, sometimes called S/S)
Do you know a current sampled piano instrument, that has no manipulation going on in the sustain part?

I don't think what you are saying is a form of synthesis. Anyway, even if it is, I'm quite certain there are piano libraries that do not loop the sustain (Vienna Imperial Grand is the first one that comes to mind). A piano has finite sustain, there isn't a need to loop the sustain the way there is with a synthesizer.