Does changing the “optimize polyphony” setting affect this?photonic wrote:I tried it with 8 voices and it was the same problem after reaching the 9th note. And I am not talking about release phase. I still hold the low note key so the sound is in it's sustain phase. And it should sound as long as I hold the key!
One Synth Challenge #105 - Thorn by Dmitry Sches (J. Ruegg Wins!)
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- KVRist
- 488 posts since 25 Aug, 2016 from Helsinki, Finland
Viiri Audio https://viiri-audio.com/
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- KVRian
- 628 posts since 5 Mar, 2011 from Austria
NO. I mentioned this in my first posting.ilmai wrote:Does changing the “optimize polyphony” setting affect this?photonic wrote:I tried it with 8 voices and it was the same problem after reaching the 9th note. And I am not talking about release phase. I still hold the low note key so the sound is in it's sustain phase. And it should sound as long as I hold the key!
soundcloud.com/photonic-1
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- KVRist
- 488 posts since 25 Aug, 2016 from Helsinki, Finland
Oops, sorry, missed that sentence while skimming the thread. Anyway, I did notice the same behavior and didn't find a good solution apart from setting polyphony to maximum...photonic wrote:NO. I mentioned this in my first posting.ilmai wrote:Does changing the “optimize polyphony” setting affect this?photonic wrote:I tried it with 8 voices and it was the same problem after reaching the 9th note. And I am not talking about release phase. I still hold the low note key so the sound is in it's sustain phase. And it should sound as long as I hold the key!
Viiri Audio https://viiri-audio.com/
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- KVRian
- 939 posts since 31 May, 2017
I think that is simply how the synth works. It has last note priority not low note priority. It says so in the manual and it doesn't say there is any way to change that (an option some advanced synths give you). You will always have to have your number of voices set high enough to overcome this issue I guess.photonic wrote:I tried it with 8 voices and it was the same problem after reaching the 9th note. And I am not talking about release phase. I still hold the low note key so the sound is in it's sustain phase. And it should sound as long as I hold the key!zarf wrote:The quick & crude way would be to duplicate the track with the same preset and play both at the same time, but of course this is far from optimal and doesn't really address the issue!photonic wrote:Any ideas how to prevent this behavior? This makes this Synth quite unusable for playing with both hand.
But ... it seems to work fine for me? Is it a long release pushing the voices over what you have set it to? Have you tried adding voices and / or lowering release time?
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- KVRian
- 628 posts since 5 Mar, 2011 from Austria
Thanx! Higher voice number or splitting the notes to different instances will be the way I have to try.Local Man wrote:I think that is simply how the synth works. It has last note priority not low note priority. It says so in the manual and it doesn't say there is any way to change that (an option some advanced synths give you). You will always have to have your number of voices set high enough to overcome this issue I guess.photonic wrote:I tried it with 8 voices and it was the same problem after reaching the 9th note. And I am not talking about release phase. I still hold the low note key so the sound is in it's sustain phase. And it should sound as long as I hold the key!zarf wrote:The quick & crude way would be to duplicate the track with the same preset and play both at the same time, but of course this is far from optimal and doesn't really address the issue!photonic wrote:Any ideas how to prevent this behavior? This makes this Synth quite unusable for playing with both hand.
But ... it seems to work fine for me? Is it a long release pushing the voices over what you have set it to? Have you tried adding voices and / or lowering release time?
soundcloud.com/photonic-1
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- KVRian
- 648 posts since 20 Jan, 2013
I think Thorn seems a little unusual in that it steals the first voice played even if that voice is still sustaining. More commonly - I think - a voice in it's release phase would be chosen first where possible which would prevent this particular issue.
http://electronicmusic.wikia.com/wiki/Voice_stealing (para 2)
http://electronicmusic.wikia.com/wiki/Voice_stealing (para 2)
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- KVRian
- 939 posts since 31 May, 2017
It's weird, as excited as I initially was about this synth, I am really having a hard time putting things together with it. Creating a single patch is inspiring but I'm finding that everything I am creating seems to occupy a similar sonic space and when I put things together it becomes flat and loses detail.
My biggest problem by far is basslines. I can't for the life of me create a strong bass that cuts through the mix (without dominating it). Sure I can make something that sounds good on its own but as soon as I try to add it to something else it becomes too busy and falls apart. For me this may be a problem I have with spectral synths in general. I feel like there is a fizzyness that never goes away (no matter how low and steep the filter cuts) that does not lend itself well to a bass that plays nicely with others. I don't know, maybe I need to just keep at it (and this may have a lot to due with my style of music; I'm sure many of you are loving this thing for bass).
Anyway, this for me really highlights why this one synth thing is such a challenge. When you have to create every element with just one synth, even a synth as great as Thorn can feel limiting for some components. Like if I was making a track without constraints I would use Thorn for pads and all kinds of beautiful, sparkling, glitchy elements in the higher register and would most certainly leave drum and bass duties for something else.
My biggest problem by far is basslines. I can't for the life of me create a strong bass that cuts through the mix (without dominating it). Sure I can make something that sounds good on its own but as soon as I try to add it to something else it becomes too busy and falls apart. For me this may be a problem I have with spectral synths in general. I feel like there is a fizzyness that never goes away (no matter how low and steep the filter cuts) that does not lend itself well to a bass that plays nicely with others. I don't know, maybe I need to just keep at it (and this may have a lot to due with my style of music; I'm sure many of you are loving this thing for bass).
Anyway, this for me really highlights why this one synth thing is such a challenge. When you have to create every element with just one synth, even a synth as great as Thorn can feel limiting for some components. Like if I was making a track without constraints I would use Thorn for pads and all kinds of beautiful, sparkling, glitchy elements in the higher register and would most certainly leave drum and bass duties for something else.
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- KVRian
- 939 posts since 31 May, 2017
On a more positive note, the self oscillating filters on this thing are pure magic. The best self oscillating filter effects I have ever used. With the right blend of cutoff and resonance you can create some really cool and subtle textures. And if you mess with the key and velocity scaling you make some really tripped out not so subtle effects.
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- KVRian
- 927 posts since 13 Jan, 2013 from United States
The OSC challenges us in four ways -- 1) sound design, 2) composition, 3) musical arrangement, 4) production - recording and mixing.
In other words.... it's an awesome learning experience every month!
In other words.... it's an awesome learning experience every month!
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- KVRian
- 653 posts since 13 May, 2017 from Virginia
omg I just realized that the modulation value is the beginning and the selected value is the end. Is it always that way? My brain hurts. Getting nice kicks out of this.
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- KVRian
- 653 posts since 13 May, 2017 from Virginia
Oh glorious. This is taking me right back to my kawai k5000. I love additives.
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- KVRist
- 58 posts since 9 Aug, 2004
Well, it seems that switching to 64bit has solved the crashing problem for me. I've been messing around for a few hours and things are fine so far.NedK wrote:Hey zarf! I'm having the same problem as you, and my specs are pretty close to yours as well. Except, I'm using Windows 10 64bit, Reaper 32bit, and a Scarlett 6i6 (@ 48k) Haven't had time yet, but I was gonna try going 64bit Reaper/Thorn, and also try bypassing the Focusrite. Maybe tonight...
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- KVRian
- 648 posts since 20 Jan, 2013
Thanks for the update will see if I can try that myself, cheersNedK wrote:Well, it seems that switching to 64bit has solved the crashing problem for me. I've been messing around for a few hours and things are fine so far.
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- KVRian
- 653 posts since 13 May, 2017 from Virginia
Still in the honeymoon phase here. I've worn out the balance knob so much I will have to order a replacement from Amazon.
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- KVRian
- 653 posts since 13 May, 2017 from Virginia
Seems like I might have a bug with Osc position and modulation -
If I set the MSEG to start high to a keyframe range, it actually seems to start at the Osc position of 0 and then quickly goes up to the correct range. This happens for Env modulation too. High decay, low sustain with a high position starting range always starts at position 0 on keypress. Workaround for Env only is to start the pointer at the high position and modulate negative using a long attack. HOWEVER, then the sound ends on the beginning keyframe point which is really bizarre to me.
I can't seem to find a configuration that simply lets me start at keyframe A and on keyframe B where release is keyframe B and retrigger starts on keyframe A cleanly again. I must be missing something.
**** It would be really nice if you could simply drag bars over the keyframes and make them A, D, S, R keyframes.
**** It would also be really nice if you could change the interpolation curve between the keyframes, ease in, ease out etc. Right now it seems like awful linear.
Basically the OSC position feature seems frustratingly hampered right now. ARGH! It's really frustrating because I was planning on playing with harmonics a lot since it seemed like the very nice selling point of this synth....
If I set the MSEG to start high to a keyframe range, it actually seems to start at the Osc position of 0 and then quickly goes up to the correct range. This happens for Env modulation too. High decay, low sustain with a high position starting range always starts at position 0 on keypress. Workaround for Env only is to start the pointer at the high position and modulate negative using a long attack. HOWEVER, then the sound ends on the beginning keyframe point which is really bizarre to me.
I can't seem to find a configuration that simply lets me start at keyframe A and on keyframe B where release is keyframe B and retrigger starts on keyframe A cleanly again. I must be missing something.
**** It would be really nice if you could simply drag bars over the keyframes and make them A, D, S, R keyframes.
**** It would also be really nice if you could change the interpolation curve between the keyframes, ease in, ease out etc. Right now it seems like awful linear.
Basically the OSC position feature seems frustratingly hampered right now. ARGH! It's really frustrating because I was planning on playing with harmonics a lot since it seemed like the very nice selling point of this synth....