Zebra 2 Brain Overload

[martinjuenke]

Being amused when reading this holy war diary I wonder: is it about Zebra, Linux or has anybody here a brain overload?

[chk071]

You're doing it wrong. You need to believe. Then it will be true.

Blender:

Single examples of semi-professional work won't make your, or anyone else's case in this thread any more true. The industry DOESN'T use Blender. Just like the industry DOESN'T use Libre Office, GIMP, or Inkscape. Not because they dislike it per se, but, because it is no valid alternative. How the eff would it be, when a handful of people work on them in their spare time, opposed to commercial products with dozens of developers and designers.

Being amused when reading this holy war diary I wonder: is it about Zebra, Linux or has anybody here a brain overload?

If only i could blame it on the hot weather.

[mevla]

http://blog.mikepan.com/

Obviously Blender runs on Linux and was first ported to Linux from SGI.

Mike Pan wrote, from the above link:

"I am working to get Linux on this laptop and will follow up with an update as soon as it’s done."

Now why would such a passionate and professional artist spend any time on Linux ?

http://blog.thepixelary.com/post/167616 ... ers-cycles

Er, these graphs are showing that Windows is much slower than Linux when it comes to Blender ... unless you have the 'Tesla Compute Center (TCC)'. Yes, it is not the higher bars that wins it, quite the contrary. Windows needs a TCC to equate Ubuntu performance.

Maybe there's an element of answer to why Mike Pan would look into Linux. could it be ?

Now scale that to the major rendering of productions in development and the time it takes for a production studio and the impact it has on development. What is the cost of Windows + TCC clusters compared to Ubuntu clusters ?

[zvenx]

btw Blender seems to be multiplatformed, and I didnt' see linux mentioned in the two posted animations.
How do you guys know it was done on linux out of curiosity?

[martinjuenke]

The war rages on relentlessly...

[zvenx]

http://blog.mikepan.com/

Obviously Blender runs on Linux and was first ported to Linux from SGI.

Mike Pan wrote, from the above link:

"I am working to get Linux on this laptop and will follow up with an update as soon as it’s done."

Now why would such a passionate and professional artist spend any time on Linux ?

http://blog.thepixelary.com/post/167616 ... ers-cycles

Er, these graphs are showing that Windows is much slower than Linux when it comes to Blender ... unless you have the 'Tesla Compute Center (TCC)'. Yes, it is not the higher bars that wins it, quite the contrary. Windows needs a TCC to equate Ubuntu performance.

Maybe there's an element of answer to why Mike Pan would look into Linux. could it be ?

Now scale that to the major rendering of productions in development and the time it takes for a production studio and the impact it has on development. What is the cost of Windows + TCC clusters compared to Ubuntu clusters ?

What I read is that there is a way to optimize W10 with certain graphic cards to nullify the Linux advantage. And that it is a software setting no expensive additional hardware required (need another gpu to drive the monitor).
Are you seeing it differently?

Turns out, when doing GPU rendering on Windows 8 or above, any command that’s issued by Blender has to go through the WDDM, or Windows Display Driver Model. This driver layer is responsible for handling all the display devices, but it often adds a significant overhead to computing tasks. This model is a core component of Windows and cannot be disabled simply.

Luckily, the smart people at Nvidia already has a solution for it. To by pass the WDDM completely, we need to set the GPU as a “Tesla Compute Cluster”, or TCC for short. Once we enabled that, the GPU is no longer visible as a display device under Windows. But it’s still accessible by all CUDA apps. We than ran all the Blender benchmark again and here is the result:
With TCC enabled, Windows performance is exactly the same as Linux!

Now, here is the bad news. TCC is only available on Geforce Titan and Geforce Quadro line of GPUs, it is not available for Geforce GTX series. And it only works if you have another GPU to drive the display output (since TCC devices cannot be used to drive any display). But if you have to stick to a Windows environment and have a separate GPU, TCC might just be what you need to get that extra 30% performance back.

rsp

[mevla]

I'd use Blender as a hobbyist too, if i had the choice between free and a multi thousand € a year subscription for one of the professional tools.

It looks like you're on the verge of divulging your audio/video business profits. I mean, are you one of the few professionals running audio/video businesses present on KVR ?

No ?

So what's this 'dream' with expensive professional tools that perhaps 1% of KVR participants can afford while the 85% others are using to prop up their 'dreams' ?

If you ask someone who does 3D modelling though, ...

Did you actually ? If so, that's one advice.

[chk071]

If you ask someone who does 3D modelling though, ...

Did you actually ? If so, that's one advice.

I'm frequent in a couple of game modding forums, so, i'd say the answer to that question is yes. A few of the people there actually Blender, but, rather out of the same motives i'd use it. Because it just doesn't make sense for hobbyists to shell out a couple of thousands every year for a professional solution.

Feel free though to post some scenes from blockbuster movies where the animations were made with Blender. Or AAA games. After all, we're talking about the professional business here, audio or video.

[mevla]

The war rages on relentlessly...

Well, it is like your description of Linux plugins : 'Poor and limited choice' ... from people who do not know much about Linux and are aiming at a context way outside of KVR as reference.

[chk071]

Well, just ask yourself one thing: Would another OS user group make such a fuss about their OS, and try to evangelize everything which comes along its way? I don't. Maybe you do. Mac OS users aren't nearly as obtrusive. Linux is a religion. A way of life. And everyone who doesn't think accordingly has to be made to think accordingly. I think there's been enough rational arguing, and examples in this thread, which have been wiped away with religious fervor.

[mevla]

What I read is that there is a way to optimize W10 with certain graphic cards to nullify the Linux advantage. And that it is a software setting no expensive additional hardware required (need another gpu to drive the monitor).
Are you seeing it differently?

True enough. There must be other reasons then why Mike Pan would investigate Linux aren't they.

[zvenx]

Don't get me wrong.
I remember reading years ago when Pixar was using either Unix or Linux for all their animation rendering and I certainly know at that time a lot of animation rendering farming was being done with unix linux.. I can only imagine since then they have gotten a bigger foothold in animation.

I am not sure how big a foothold linux has in general film editing for medium size and big studios.


But I would be exceedingly surprised if in the Audio world (our world here) where pro tools is King that linux has made much inroads into what I consider lots of serious audio work.....But maybe my definition of serious and lots are different than others.

So I am not 'fighting down' linux in general.
It has advantages in other fields, I just don't think it is happening in audio or see signs it is about to be happening in Audio and for developers to spend precious R&D time and money to develop for a fringe OS (to the Audio world) just doesn't make much sense to me, and I don't see it happening.
rsp

[mevla]

Well, just ask yourself one thing: Would another OS user group make such a fuss about their OS, and try to evanglize everything which comes along its way? I don't. Maybe you do. Mac OS users aren't nearly as obtrusive. Linux is a religion. A way of life. And everyone who doesn't think accordingly has to be made to think accordingly.

According to you.

I mentioned that I was waiting for Zebra3 on Linux. Which is well on topic sicne all u-he plugins have Linux versions.

And then what ? People started to bash Linux. Of course under these circumstances some replying is in order. You see it as an 'evangelisation' when these are simply replies to set it straight.

So who is blinded by concepts ?

Why do you have to diminish topics to introduce love/hate ? Do you actually have feelings about software/OS you run ? Really ?

I like my table saw, I like by cross saw, I consider they are useful tools in creating pieces with wood. But to have feelings about them ? This said if someone blatantly say that the brand of table saw I use is no good, then I will reply.

[Cyoon]

... And I'm looking forward for Zebra3 for Linux !

Mac is as close to Linux as anyone would want to get unless they like to spend all there time futzing with the innards of computers and code. If you really want to get music out the door, stay away...

Only true because the major manufacturers in audio production don't support it. If Protools, Cubase, etc, supported linux then that wouldn't be true anymore.

Also interface manufacturers would be needed to create proper drivers for linux. Using Jack/Alsa when having rock stable RME drivers on mac/win doesn't make much sense imo.

[EnochLight]

I can't believe people are even thinking about Linux.

NO.

ONE.

USES.

IT.

The entire worldwide desktop/laptop OS market is dominated by Windows and OSX. The vast majority of bedroom musicians (which are 99% of the people here) all use either Windows or OSX. Why would any VST/AU or DAW dev commit resources and time to Linux?

Serious question.

You are simply wrong. Linux dominates the server market and is used widely in business, film editing, etc.

How am I wrong when I stated, very factually, that the entire worldwide desktop/laptop OS market is dominated by Windows and OSX? I can provide links to reference the data, but a cursory Google search will show this to you.

Nobody has said that there was a large linux base in audio production, I simply said Linux would be good for it if it ever happened. I wasn't even promoting it.

While perhaps not in this thread, plenty have requested Linux support for plugins here. When the entire worldwide desktop/laptop OS market is dominated by Windows and OSX, it makes virtually zero sense for plugin/DAW manufacturers to target an OS that really no one uses. Not the sort of potential customers you want to sell boat loads of wares to, anyway.

You ask why anyone would support Linux ... why not go over to the u-he forum and ask Urs directly, u-he supports linux with all of their major plugins including Diva, Zebra, Ace, etc. Why not just go ask him, he's obviously gone to a lot of trouble to support linux, he must have a reason for having done it, right ? Or you could go and ask Steinberg why they're now supporting Linux in their VST 3 SDK, but it will probably be a harder place to get an answer. They all have skin in the game, and I'm Urs seems approachable enough to give you a straight answer.

Of course .. that assumes your question wasn't rhetorical and you actually want to know.

A handful of devs supporting Linux proves nothing, I'm afraid. The fact is, the vast majority of devs (both plugin and DAW) only support Windows and OSX (and more recently, iOS or Android), for obvious reasons.

My question wasn't rhetorical; I genuinely was looking for someone to make a valid argument for Linux support. I've yet to see one. Servers don't run plugins/DAWs, businesses are unrelated to this context, and I'm willing to wager most film editing is still done on OSX and Windows these days.