Reason+ = subscription model (20€ month)

[ReleaseCandidate]

...they screwed up Reason Intro owners with no upgrade path at all?

How are they "screwed"? They can still use 11 Intro, the Rack plugin and get REs. I doubt anyone who got Intro for very cheap or free (like most did) would be upgrading it to 12 Intro, anyway.

You are confusing Lite with Intro. Lite was free, Intro not. I actually thought about buying Intro. Well, now surely not
Hmm, I somehow heard that names somewhere else. 'Lite', 'Intro', 'Standard' and 'Suite' .... But I just can't remember where

...they screwed up Reason Intro owners with no upgrade path at all?

How are they "screwed"? They can still use 11 Intro, the Rack plugin and get REs. I doubt anyone who got Intro for very cheap or free (like most did) would be upgrading it to 12 Intro, anyway.

It all depends on what 12 Intro offers more than 11 Intro and how much it costs.

They cancelled Intro and Suite. There is only Standard.

To simplify our lineup we will discontinue Reason Intro and Reason Suite

https://www.reasonstudios.com/blog/intr ... eason-plus

[antic604]

if you choose to obey . you can do so . but I dont choose to do so . I dont look up people ??? for what ? you think your special ... oh boi . everybody has the right to do or be whatever they want to . you do you and I do me . ok ?!?!

I don't think I'm special, although everyone is

But you're drawing a conclusion from one issue - which we clearly disagree about - and paint me as someone who meekly agrees to everything and never says no; so that you could "win" that argument.

That's a pathetic identity politics trick for weak people that run out of arguments.

Get lost, "boi"

[antic604]

You are confusing Lite with Intro. Lite was free, Intro not. I actually thought about buying Intro. Well, now surely not

Maybe you're right. I never thought of those "lesser" versions as anything else than an extended trial that is eventually either discarded or upgraded to a "proper" version; so I might've not paid attention.

[melime]

if you choose to obey . you can do so . but I dont choose to do so . I dont look up people ??? for what ? you think your special ... oh boi . everybody has the right to do or be whatever they want to . you do you and I do me . ok ?!?!

I don't think I'm special, although everyone is

But you're drawing a conclusion from one issue - which we clearly disagree about - and paint me as someone who meekly agrees to everything and never says no; so that you could "win" that argument.

That's a pathetic identity politics trick for weak people that run out of arguments.

Get lost, "boi"

I am just using methods you can relate too.

[melime]

if you choose to obey . you can do so . but I dont choose to do so . I dont look up people ??? for what ? you think your special ... oh boi . everybody has the right to do or be whatever they want to . you do you and I do me . ok ?!?!

I don't think I'm special, although everyone is

But you're drawing a conclusion from one issue - which we clearly disagree about - and paint me as someone who meekly agrees to everything and never says no; so that you could "win" that argument.

That's a pathetic identity politics trick for weak people that run out of arguments.

Get lost, "boi"

I am just using methods you can relate too.

using my term ( boi ) you must be creative . hehe

[Lotuz2019]

They cancelled Intro and Suite. There is only Standard.

I know. We were only theoratically speaking. I think it's a bad business decision to discontinue Intro. I'm certainly not upgrading to the standard Reason or subscribe. Intro pretty much has all the devices I want from RS. I only would like 11 Intro to have a larger GUI.

You are confusing Lite with Intro. Lite was free, Intro not. I actually thought about buying Intro. Well, now surely not

Maybe you're right. I never thought of those "lesser" versions as anything else than an extended trial that is eventually either discarded or upgraded to a "proper" version; so I might've not paid attention.

11 Intro is very well equiped if you're a returning user of Reason like me (1.0 - 2.5).

[WasteLand]

i replied on the live stream, not while the live stream was live, i saw some parts afterwards, well you can say a lot about it, this live stream, make up your own mind about of course, so in the comment section and in reason talk. not whole negative but some strange things, or even disrespectful things as no

intro

anymore. only standard. ow that i didn't mentioned before.

i mentioned before, that the site is completely taken over by reason+, to go to store is deep diving, when you are in reason+ section, you can almost not get to the store, to simply find out, that for instance Friktion, can be bought, rent-to-own, and then we aren't even talking about the sales.

reason+ = you get everything. no. no third parties RE's. it is not illegal what they do, but they push out, the developers that contributed to reason... made the reason ecosystem great (o no.. not that slogan..).

third party developers don't play a role, they even didn't know it.

reason+ = reason suite (plus some extras, yes, "free" updates, every new REASON device, and soundpacks soundpack soundpacks soundpacks)

quote: blog from mattias;

"this was something we got a lot of feedback on with Reason Suite. It was unclear if devices or features would be included in the future, if there was a special upgrade path, or if it was a one-time bundle. To make things clearer, we've discontinued Reason Suite. Now we can comfortably say that Reason+ is the choice if you want it all."

it was unclear, why? because they made it unclear. not the users. this is a very strange argument.

to cancel suite now, is also strange, but they can. but cancel intro is very strange. pushing users to.... reason+, because intro in sale was €50 or so, or €60 great stuff for not a lot of money.

it is now clear, it becomes a subscription model.............. reason suite...

which in the end will offer indeed, reason 12 + extra devices, but mainly: soundpacks, soundpacks, soundpacks, soundpacks, soundpacks. (and reason 13). for €20 per month, €240 per year.

how many devices will reason studios make per year?

yes, new users will like it, or other users. no problem.

you can still buy licenses, and own reason. (but: mattias stated, after a comment from me; that there are no plans, but it can never be ruled out, as with any other company.... so.. an honest answer, i believe.. you never predicht that i company decides... he isn't the CEO, or some money guy..)

it is become móre confusing. me thinks.

and to undermine third party developers this way, perhaps it is for a week or 2, but no mention of third party RE's.

which reason+ users will discover, and want to buy, or even think, hee why aren't the included.. etc.

you don't get everything, you get everything from reason studios, and if you looked at the site 2 days before, or the months, years before, you could see that third party RE's are big part of the reason ecosystem..

it could be a coincidence; noise engineering is gonna make VST's, they have already AAX, they are very small company, so they could release the AAX version very fast. other formats will follow, VST and AU, i believe.
also new RE's will come. ow well i don't think it is related.

and this is strange:

also by mattias:

"If you own any full version of Reason or Reason Suite, we've got a great offer if you want in on Reason+ right away. Until 27 April you can purchase the 1-year plan for Reason+ for 50% off, giving you access to the above updates and new stuff when it arrives."

great offer!!! you can buy a 1 year plan for 50% off. the text is what strange... i am reading it too fast.. and it is one year only... (EDIT: only credit card is allowed. o no prob, i don't have one, and reason+ can get the... for me, personally..)

https://help.reasonstudios.com/hc/en-us ... 0019069760

yes, you commit to one year, but it is per month, that you have to pay? and what is 50% off? 50, no where the price is stated, but the normal price is €19,99. so, €10, those 2 cents.. €120 in the end, the price for an update to reason 12, that you will own....

only reason+ is now on the head menu.

and still the uncertainty. but that i have talked about on YT, already. and some other disrespectful things, they do.

disclaimer: you can critical about a software program/ecosystem that you like. i own reason 11 suite, plus some RE's (yes, all noise engineering... and some effects and utilities, not a lot, o well with suite, you have got a mighty system, and it is not my only DAW... or VSTi...).

[chagzuki]

I know. We were only theoratically speaking. I think it's a bad business decision to discontinue Intro. I'm certainly not upgrading to the standard Reason or subscribe. Intro pretty much has all the devices I want from RS. I only would like 11 Intro to have a larger GUI.

That's why it's a bad business model for them, unless it acts as an enticement to move up the pricing tiers it's undermining their sales. I quite like Reason intro too, and I hope my current version continues to function properly for a significant time as I'm using it in projects. I've not really seen any reason to upgrade as I just wanted a few aspects of Reason in VST rack form.

[WasteLand]

I know. We were only theoratically speaking. I think it's a bad business decision to discontinue Intro. I'm certainly not upgrading to the standard Reason or subscribe. Intro pretty much has all the devices I want from RS. I only would like 11 Intro to have a larger GUI.

That's why it's a bad business model for them, unless it acts as an enticement to move up the pricing tiers it's undermining their sales. I quite like Reason intro too, and I hope my current version continues to function properly for a significant time as I'm using it in projects. I've not really seen any reason to upgrade as I just wanted a few aspects of Reason in VST rack form.

i think it will, people still use reason 5, or 6 or 7 etc. and especially on windows, no problems.
will work for years, to come, and no subscription.. you have payed alread, a free subscription, that feels like it.

@Lotuz2019, you have reason 11 lite? yes intro would be a great, if you don't want it all, or want to buy

third party RE's...

but intro is gone. a reason 12 lite?? will it come.

[Lotuz2019]

@Lotuz2019, you have reason 11 lite? yes intro would be a great, if you don't want it all, or want to buy

third party RE's...

but intro is gone. a reason 12 lite?? will it come.

I sold Intro, used Lite for a while, bought Intro again a couple of days ago, because I want to use some devices in the RRP after all.

Reason 12 Lite? 11 Lite was well equiped like Intro, but RS stripped it down with version 11.3. The 11 Lite RRP doesn't offer that much interesting devices imo. I don't think they'll add all those removed devices again in 12 Lite.

[gentleclockdivider]

The company formerly known as 'propellerheads ' is propelling itself towards the exit sign

[WasteLand]

@Lotuz2019, you have reason 11 lite? yes intro would be a great, if you don't want it all, or want to buy

third party RE's...

but intro is gone. a reason 12 lite?? will it come.

I sold Intro, used Lite for a while, bought Intro again a couple of days ago, because I want to use some devices in the RRP after all.

Reason 12 Lite? 11 Lite was well equiped like Intro, but RS stripped it down with version 11.3. The 11 Lite RRP doesn't offer that much interesting devices imo. I don't think they'll add all those removed devices again in 12 Lite.

then you are lucky, but resellers will still have some intro/suite licenses. me thinks.

yes for RRP, lite is pretty stripped down. but intro provides a nice set of the instruments of reason.

i stepped in with reason 10, bought it second hand, for a very low price.
and last year in may i bought reason 11 suite upgrade.

i always had problems to insert reason 10 in my workflow. with reason 11 that problem is gone, and strangely i work more within reason 11 suite, but still no full songs, but loops, already layered with more devices/instruments/modulators/ etc.. but basics for tracks.

thanks to RRP.

so i am pretty positive about reason, or even; it is for me a great daw, with great devices. and with a panaroma p1, all i can access, tactile..

so it has finally has become a full part of my workflow.

[Cancel Culture Club]

The biggest problem with companies making these types of moves is that it isn't based on users' requests or needs, it's mostly based on a profit generating system, like standard home utilities, phone, cable, electricity, water, sewer, garbage, etc...

Who ever thought this was a good idea to milk your customers by delivering digital software like delivering milk, needs to rethink the future.

The problem isn't getting new customers to signup, it's getting them to renew for years to come.
A lot of people discover that making music isn't exactly what they thought it was, and not worth the money in the long run, and therefore don't renew. Subscriptions are the first things to be cut when budgets get tight, like during a pandemic.

Companies will also run out of plugins, instruments and devices to keep people satisfied with updates once their libraries of tools become flooded with unnecessary variations.

Subscription models might be good for the short term, but the long run looks dim.

[Eclectrophonic]

Oh dear, I've been upgrading Reason every year since version 4 and it looks like it could be my last. I'm not going to subscribe.
Unfortunately l think they are struggling

You can still upgrade. They stated on Reasontalk that it's not subscription ONLY, it's as well as so either or.

How do you upgrade if you own Suite?

Not sure but would imagine you'd just upgrade normally wouldn't you? Upgrade to 12 (if it's called 12) but not subscribe, doubtful you'll lose your instruments / devices you got with suite.

[Psuper]

If you know Propellerhead history at all, you know to only buy when you get the most for your money. Which is typically one purchase every 3 - 4 years or so. Unsurprisingly its also the period of time when they are forced to do something people actually want/need due to consistent lack of sales from their last decent offering from 3 years ago.

Mine went like this: Reason 3. Reason 6. Reason 9, Reason Suite. Only picked up the best non-vst Racks when they were on sale (which is actually quite a few, but almost none that were in the suite).

On a separate note, I noticed Propellerhead removed all references of what they 'offered' in various version both on their site and on wikipedia -- if they were so proud of what each version brought to the table, why remove it? Here's the last wayback you can find it:

http://web.archive.org/web/201803231217 ... (software)
I also had a detailed post on RT somewhere too that explained the paltry offerings per version, couldn't find it may have been deleted too.

See ya in another 3 years Props when you need my money again and are offering something worth buying!

When I posted that last point about Props hiding past offerings and updates per version, I couldn't quite figure out why they did that. I now know unerringly why...

Its so people who do "buy" a monthly subscription won't see how little Propellerheads did over time. And what props did produce was a crap-shoot of usefulness, along with a hefty dose of long-term ignoring what a majority of users consistently requested -- things that might take a year from other companies -- props would wait half a decade or more. Still do.

So they're going to give those handful of squeaky wheels the hi-dpi in hopes of a strong marketing 'look we've listened to you and here it is!' point, grab a few initial sales and hopeful marketing points. Then props history will repeat itself.

I won't buy into it, I don't think most people will: Its a poor marketing strategy (like other props poor decisions) that won't necessarily fail but won't be remotely as successful as other options, as is typical with this company.