Software vs Hardware

[Gam456]

2. Nope! The right hardware synth can make any sound a soft synth can and far beyond. Prophet X/XL is one example of a synth that goes far beyond anything a soft "synth" can do, and goes into Kontakt territory very easily. As well as a workstation like the new Montage M. Pretty much unlimited potential that goes beyond capabilities of a VST.

3. As a keyboardist and piano player, feel is important and no midi keyboard even the most premium, has a good feel for real time playing in my opinion. Which midi keyboard would you say has a great keybed?

4. As I have a Moog One 16-Voice, what I can do goes far beyond just a minimoog LOL

I can transform any mono soft synth into a poly. I can transform any synth into a workstation. Layer, split, any effect i want in send, insert. use any step, arp I want.

Montage M ? You can easly get the same even way more with Halion or Falcon, Reaktor. Granular, resynthesis, wavetable, additive, modeled. Btw Montage is now a dodgy vsti.

I can transform my guitar into a Poly Synth OR Mono Synth by running it through effects pedals. Create any kind of step sequence and arp with my guitar. I guess that makes all software AND hardware synths obsolete? lol

I use Falcon in every session I do, love it! But Montage M is a different beast. Doesn’t even sound the same as the MODX and is not even comparable to a VST. Sample rates, DAC etc all matter.

I'm talking about Unify. A vsti able to transform your plugin collection into a powerful workstation. split, layer, mono 2 poly, multi-thread, can be standalone for gig etc ...

I own a Montage 7 and enjoy it in the past. But A nightmare to programm.
Limited to 8 part with the keybed. FMX was great.
I demoing the M serie both hardware and vsti. The vsti is aweful.

Serie M. The hardware is more easy than the original serie but sonically. Nothing new. Please don't start with the DAC, a marketing joke. The sequencer is still a joke as well.

Any big library will smash AWM2 sample. FMX, there is better hardware (EssenceFM, Optix) now and vsti like, Opsix FMLab (Halion) and F-em.

And last... ANX. A big fail. I still don't undertstand why a older Reface CS sound way better, more organic than this oudated VA.

At then end, I didn't upgrade and my Montage 7 is still in the box.

[crimsonwarlock]

The listener really doesn't care one tiny bit what you used to make the sound. Debates about which sounds better are pointless when it comes to listening to a final mix.

[pdxindy]

If you think the Moog One is tame I would say that’s down to patch design, because it can get pretty gnarly sounding!

We have different impressions for the word gnarly... I've never heard anything remotely gnarly from the Moog One, and I've listened to lots of audio demos as well as my own explorations.

Anyway, you're welcome to love the sound of it. I don't.

[vitocorleone123]

The listener really doesn't care one tiny bit what you used to make the sound. Debates about which sounds better are pointless when it comes to listening to a final mix.

Details about what sound better can make a huge difference to the artist, which can then translate into the final mix. Seems pointless to pretend the instruments an artist uses don't matter in the end.

I'm not saying one or the other are universally better but, to specific individuals, they may be. Or even just may be in context in that use. And this can impact the outcome.

[pdxindy]

The listener really doesn't care one tiny bit what you used to make the sound. Debates about which sounds better are pointless when it comes to listening to a final mix.

That's a dry technical explanation that ignores the subjective reality of life.

If a musician whose music I like, finds inspiration in a certain instrument, or a favorite place to play, or people to play with, and that leads to a performance that is amazing to me, then all of that mattered.

[IvyBirds]

IvyBirds, why so nervous? The man doesn't claim software is useless, he's just saying hardware synths are still very much relevant in pro environment.
I mean, would there be so many new hardware synths if that weren't true? Why don't we all get that Ultra 9 285K and forget about hardware. Look at how many new HW synths are released.
And it's true same synth doesn't sound identical in HW and SW version. I remember I really liked Korg's Opsix HW demos, but the native version sounds like a regular VST. There was nothing interesting about it.
I suppose HW synth has dedicated audio signal processing, while CPU does everything at the same time. And that compromises sound quality.

I am not nervous at all but thanks for your concern, again I am laughing at the idea that "professionals" use hardware while non professionals use software

It seems the nervous people are the ones who seem to think they need to justify hardware with statements like that

It's seems you are somehow nervous for even bringing it up

But rather than attacking me defend this

Hardware vs Software? Hardware wins for me (and quite easily) despite my username

Worth noting that I look at it from a professional musicians standpoint. Hobbyist may not share the same fondness for the creative process which I understand. Different worlds!

You said

I have to agree, for professional work nothing beats hardware.
Your point 1 is the most important. It's all about speed. Having, for example, 8 synths turned on, plugged in, and setup with your favorite patches ready to play is infinitely faster than any software project template.

Tell me it's all about speed, if you roll into a professional studio with your 8 Synths how long does it tale to set up, gainstage, etc? If you roll onto a stage with 8 synths since it's all about speed for "professionals" such as yourself how long does it take you to set up?

I roll into a studio or I to a venue for a gig and in less time than it takes you to unload just a few of your 8 Synths I am fully up and running ready to go

The problem is people like you two seem to think anyone is impressed with your gear. When in reality no one is except for other people who also think people are impressed with their gear

No one gives a crap if you record with a $150,000 synth or a freeware VST all that matters is that they like the song on the record or on the stage.

As a professional musician all I care about is getting paid. People hire me to play pianos, organs, and keyboards. I can roll into a studio with my laptop and do just that, and/or or play the instruments they already have in studio

In the 1980s it was different because people hired the guy who could bring in a Fairlight CMI or a Synclavier II. That's not the case any more. Budgets and time frames are smaller, tighter, and shorter. They want a guy or gal who can come in be ready to go and play

Laptops and VSTs are everywhere in professional music, from the main stages of huge music festivals, to the latest Hollywood blockbusters, to the top of the album charts

But according to you none of those are professionals and they don't know what they are doing while they are doing the job if professional musicians and entertaining millions of people

[IvyBirds]

2. Nope! The right hardware synth can make any sound a soft synth can and far beyond. Prophet X/XL is one example of a synth that goes far beyond anything a soft "synth" can do, and goes into Kontakt territory very easily. As well as a workstation like the new Montage M. Pretty much unlimited potential that goes beyond capabilities of a VST.

3. As a keyboardist and piano player, feel is important and no midi keyboard even the most premium, has a good feel for real time playing in my opinion. Which midi keyboard would you say has a great keybed?

4. As I have a Moog One 16-Voice, what I can do goes far beyond just a minimoog LOL

I can transform any mono soft synth into a poly. I can transform any synth into a workstation. Layer, split, any effect i want in send, insert. use any step, arp I want.

Montage M ? You can easly get the same even way more with Halion or Falcon, Reaktor. Granular, resynthesis, wavetable, additive, modeled. Btw Montage is now a dodgy vsti.

I can transform my guitar into a Poly Synth OR Mono Synth by running it through effects pedals. Create any kind of step sequence and arp with my guitar. I guess that makes all software AND hardware synths obsolete? lol

I use Falcon in every session I do, love it! But Montage M is a different beast. Doesn’t even sound the same as the MODX and is not even comparable to a VST. Sample rates, DAC etc all matter.

So you show up at every studio session with all of that? Of course not

[crimsonwarlock]

Seems pointless to pretend the instruments an artist uses don't matter in the end.

That was not what I said. It depends on what you recognize as "in the end". If you mean the moment the artist decides he/she is happy with the outcome, then it might matter. But if it means the moment someone else is listening to the result, then no it doesn't. So it basically comes down to what you are aiming for.

If a musician whose music I like, finds inspiration in a certain instrument, or a favorite place to play, or people to play with, and that leads to a performance that is amazing to me, then all of that mattered.

But it doesn't matter because you cannot deduce any of that from listening to the music. You have no idea if the fact it sounds amazing to you has anything to do with any specific choices the artist made while performing the music. An incredible amount of successful music has been produced by using just whatever instruments were available at the time of production.

[pdxindy]

But it doesn't matter because you cannot deduce any of that from listening to the music.

I don't need to know the details for me to understand that the details mattered.

[IvyBirds]

An incredible amount of successful music has been produced by using just whatever instruments were available at the time of production.

People miss this fact. So many Platinum selling records were recorded just using the pianos/organs/Synths that just happened to be at the studio the record label or management booked to record the record

[SoftSynthLover99]

An incredible amount of successful music has been produced by using just whatever instruments were available at the time of production.

People miss this fact. So many Platinum selling records were recorded just using the pianos/organs/Synths that just happened to be at the studio the record label or management booked to record the record

Exactly! And why do the record labels and managers still book studio time for artist in real studios or with producers who have real studios? Why don't they just send the artist to the guy with the laptop who has all the plugins?

Lol here in LA where I am, you would be surprised how many artist want to work with hardware synths and outboard gear. One record I worked on in January, the artist reached out to me because I've built relationships over the years with talented individuals, and I like to nerd out about gear and plugins with tons of artist/writers/producers so they know what I've got, or that I'm always exploring sound so I've likely got something interesting in the studio to spark creativity for them (on top of being a multi instrumentalist and artist myself).

So while it's always about the song, great gear does help make songs better.

[vitocorleone123]

Seems pointless to pretend the instruments an artist uses don't matter in the end.

That was not what I said. It depends on what you recognize as "in the end". If you mean the moment the artist decides he/she is happy with the outcome, then it might matter. But if it means the moment someone else is listening to the result, then no it doesn't. So it basically comes down to what you are aiming for.

You're right - that's what I was saying based on what you'd said.

While I'm sure it's entirely possible to hate creating music and hate instruments and hate the music you create and yet still have a successful song, I'd think that the artist being satisfied with the outcome would tend to have a positive effect on the listener, and the artist may very well have made choices based on their interactions with the instruments they're using.

Whether the instrument is physical or virtual matters less than how the artist feels using it.

Maybe you don't think that. But that doesn't make you any more right (or wrong) than I.

[crimsonwarlock]

But that doesn't make you any more right (or wrong) than I.

[cryophonik]

Just in case anybody is keeping score...

Number of new arguments made in this pointless thread: 0

Number of people who have finally seen the light and realized that their choice has been wrong all along: 0

Number of people who have convinced others that their limited viewpoint applies to everyone else: 0

Number of f###s I give about what other people use to make music: 0

[vurt]

one time software is infinitely better than the real thing. cod.
theres no respawning in the real thing