KVR Audio

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:41 pm

Wopelka wrote:

Hovmod · Post by **Hovmod** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:48 pm

paul minot wrote:As usual, I have TOO MUCH to say about this subject.

IMHO, the perfect pop single has a number of elements that make it so:

1) HOOK(S) and PRODUCTION--goes without saying--we are talking POP, after all

2) A GREAT INTRO--something that grabs you the first instant you hear it. For example--"The Hustle" (f**king beautiful!), "Jumping Jack Flash", "Strawberry Fields"--hell, think of all the great songs that START OUT great!! The Beatles were the unequivocal MASTERS of this element--"Help", "Hard Day's Night", "Paperback Writer", "Lady Madonna"...jeez where do you stop???!!

3) A BALANCE OF NOVELTY AND FAMILIARITY--A song that sounds comfortable in its familiarity, but adds a new twist. In some cases, the artist itself can provide the familiarity--for example, The Beatles ("Strawberry Fields", "Eleanor Rigby", "I Am the Walrus") were able to pull of unbelievably daring singles, because of their personal familiarity to the audience. Eminem does it nowadays, to a lesser degree of ambition.

4) LYRICS that fall into at least one of four general categories, and succeed at their goal(s):
a)IDENTIFICATION--like a role-playing videogame--think "Jumping Jack Flash", "Born to Be Wild", any of Eminem's songs, Abba's "Dancing Queen" (which makes ME feel like a 15-year-old girl!)
b)SEDUCTION--for the ladies, usually--Hall and Oates' "One on One", lots of others
c)CONFECTION--i.e. ear candy, such as Beck's "Loser", Outkast's "Hey Ya", Roxy's "Virginia Plain", Eminem's stuff, other nonsense that's too much fun to resist
d)COMMUNICATION--more difficult to pull off,
and at risk of killing the "pop" feel if not done with the right touch. "Imagine" makes it. Many try but don't. Sentimentality helps, unfortunately.

5) A CLIMAX--Reflective, I'm afraid of my own generational prejudice, since a climax seems to be much less important in the post hiphop era. Still, it works for me--"Dream On", or Green Day's "Boulevard of Broken Dreams", Eminem's "Lose Yourself" lots of others.

6) BREVITY--not by a strict number such as 3 minutes, but by subjective experience--never overstays its welcome, even with repetition. I've always thought "Hey Jude" failed in this respect, despite its other strengths.

Your criteria made me nod in agreement more than the ones in the first post in this thread, and I STILL propose that the ultimate pop song, the perfect one, the one that satisfies every need, the pop song other pop songs would kill to be, is of course "When I kissed the teacher". And for those of you who weren't ten years old in 1977, it is the opening track from the album ARRIVAL, by ABBA of course.
I've moved on from ABBA since, but this is such a great song, and the lyrics are hands down the best ever. It's about the day when "I" kissed the teacher, and the class couldn't believe it and the teacher blushed. High point: "leaning over me, he was trying to explain the laws of gee-oh-me-treeee". The momentum of the guitar mixed with the backing vocals ("oooh, I wanna kiss'um") is unparallelled. It's the citizen kane of pop!

I've tried to make a cover of it in every style from metal to country, but I can never get the energy level of the original, so it just gets dumb.

Plus I'm not Agnetha

paul minot · Post by **paul minot** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:59 pm

S_A_P wrote:nice post Paul- Agreed. But thanks to you I am going to have to pull out my Breeders CD now.

The beatles were masters of the catchy intro- Day tripper and Lady Madonna are great examples of this.

I think that Becks 2 turntables and a microphone is also a nice catchy intro.

That Breeders CD--"Last Splash"--is SOOO wonderful! Good plan!

McLilith · Post by **McLilith** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:19 pm

Some of the people who think pop is an actual style of music are describing what used to be somewhat dispairingly referred to as "bubblegum" music. Does anyone recognize that term? It's been awhile since I actually heard it used.

take care,
McLilith

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:21 pm

McLilith wrote:Some of the people who think pop is an actual style of music are describing what used to be somewhat dispairingly referred to as "bubblegum" music. Does anyone recognize that term? It's been awhile since I actually heard it used.

take care,
McLilith

last time i posted something in the Music Cafe was under "bubblegum"

Doogle · Post by **Doogle** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:43 pm

One thing that has stuck in my mind is my piano teacher telling me that

classical music was the pop music of it's time

.
So when you look at it like that (which I think is the right way to look at it), pop definately isn't a genre.

Errr.. just to clear that up!

Doogle

Stupid American Pig · Post by **Stupid American Pig** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:48 pm

agreed pop just means popular. so that would mean that what ever is selling the best and getting the most airplay is "pop"

Hewitt Huntwork · Post by **Hewitt Huntwork** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:08 pm

Somebody mentioned a song called "there she goes again", but I can't believe no one has yet mentioned:

There She Goes - The La's

There are many more I could name, but the inclusion of others just seems to take a little bit away from The La's. Just perfect (IMO).

(edit) - Btw, this song handily meets all six of Paul Minot's above mentioned criteria.

paul minot · Post by **paul minot** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:21 pm

McLilith wrote:Some of the people who think pop is an actual style of music are describing what used to be somewhat dispairingly referred to as "bubblegum" music. Does anyone recognize that term? It's been awhile since I actually heard it used.

take care,
McLilith

Yep, bubblegum musicreferred to the simple, kid-oriented pop-rock around 1969, much of it put out by Buddah Records, and produced by Kasenatz and Katz. These guys had a number of faux bands, such as the 1910 Fruitgum Company ("1-2-3 Redlight", "Simon Says"), Ohio Express ("Yummy Yummy"), and on a slightly more psychedeli-sophisticated tip, The Lemon Pipers and their glorious confection, "Green Tambourine." The Archies (another faux band, actually a guy named Ron Dante) made the idiotic "Bang Shangalang" before producing the terrific "Sugar Sugar"--later covered by Wilson Pickett! Anyway, then there was the Cowsills and the Partridge Family, the Osmonds, etc. It was kids' stuff, for sure, but in some ways definitive pop music, and not far removed from "Hey Ya", ABBA, and other delightful inanities.

Besides myself

,other sophisticated talents have acknowledged their appreciation of this form--Talking Heads started out doing a cover of "1-2-3 Redlight" when they used to play art parties in New York, and Michael Stipe once said if he ever did a solo album is would be a bunch of bubblegum covers.

ianweb123 · Post by **ianweb123** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:04 pm

New Musik - Living by Numbers

First Class - Beach Baby

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:12 pm

ianweb123 wrote:New Musik - Living by Numbers

the whole of "From A to B" is a pop/production masterpiece!

ianweb123 · Post by **ianweb123** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:26 pm

clueless wrote:
ianweb123 wrote:New Musik - Living by Numbers
the whole of "From A to B" is a pop/production masterpiece!

Blimey somebody that agrees with me!!

Probably my all time favorite pop album.. I also voted for Beach Baby as it just hooks into every Beach-Pop cliche going and yet does it so well that it transends the cliche.. How many pop tunes can you name with such good use of trombones (or horns or whatever the **** they are)..!

donkey tugger · Post by **donkey tugger** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:28 pm

Hewitt Huntwork wrote:Somebody mentioned a song called "there she goes again", but I can't believe no one has yet mentioned:

There She Goes - The La's

There are many more I could name, but the inclusion of others just seems to take a little bit away from The La's. Just perfect (IMO).

(edit) - Btw, this song handily meets all six of Paul Minot's above mentioned criteria.

Yay!!!!

ianweb123 · Post by **ianweb123** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:38 pm

Has anybody mentioned
Buggles - Video killed the radio star

Sparks - This town ain't big enough (I did a great metal-mix of this one once)

Madness - It must be love

clueless · Post by **clueless** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:44 pm

donkey tugger wrote:
Hewitt Huntwork wrote:Somebody mentioned a song called "there she goes again", but I can't believe no one has yet mentioned:

There She Goes - The La's

There are many more I could name, but the inclusion of others just seems to take a little bit away from The La's. Just perfect (IMO).

(edit) - Btw, this song handily meets all six of Paul Minot's above mentioned criteria.
Yay!!!!

still got my '90 tour T-shirt from seeing them at the royal court in liverpool. used to live round the corner from them in aigburth and would bump into them in Chris's chippy on rose lane. well dodgy geezers, but a definitively perfect pop tune.

6 pence none the richer (or whatever) went on to prove that, no matter the quality of the song, it can still be made to sound like a decaff pissy dribble

The 'perfect' pop single