KVR Audio

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:31 am

Acolmiztli wrote:If they're saying its a complete music system, then it is fine that they call it a mastering suite. If they're saying you don't need anything else to make music, then people who decide they don't need anything else except Reason can use it as a mastering suite.

Those who feel they need to go outside of the program don't really have an argument - they know the limitations, why get huffy about it?

I wrote this whilst I was high though, so maybe it don't make sense.

I got "huffy"? You must be high then.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:37 am

original flipper wrote:HI

I love hearing people getting so hung up about what X host can and can't do - but Reason is the one that gets it the most.

Rest assured that for many genres reason can dish up the goods and then some - I heard some soon to be released D&B this evening done in Reason, Neuendo and Neuendo with reason Re-Wired and I could not seperate any of it - in fact some of the 100% Reason stuff (I was later told what was done with what) using some quality refills was ASTOUNDING.

Other people I know have had top 40 hits with Reason and have remixed some pretty well known groups using samples of the original tracks thrown into dr Rex and the other sample playback modules - I don't use Reason a lot - I bloody well should though!!!

To me if you can get a sample into a system then IT AINT LOCKED - record your vocal/Gtr or whatever and then drop it in.

REASON CAN ROCK!!!

Flipper.

I'm not sure if this is a response to my posts or somemone else's. If it's directed at me then I would like for you to point out a statement that I made where I say that Reason is incapable of achieving professional results.

braj · Post by **braj** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:49 am

JohnVulich wrote:I also find it quite amusing to watch the Reason apologist/sicophants jump through the hoops that the Propellerheads have taught them to jump through.

It seems you have an axe to grind against Reason. Did Reason steal you girlfriend or sleep with you wife? Something?

Anyway, whatever your reasons, I think you're wrong. Combinator does allow a Reason user access to sounds they otherwise wouldn't have used, if they are quality or not is subjective. It makes it more usable as a performance tool. And the mastering stuff allows a user creating something completely in Reason to at least present a polished master without needing a separate app. Am I going to upgrade? Nope, it's not worth it to me. But I'll give 3.0 it's due respect at least. And I won't call people who choose to upgrade "apologist/sycophants'.

sycophants - A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.

Do you really think that is fair?

drez · Post by **drez** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:57 am

braj wrote:...And I won't call people who choose to upgrade "apologist/sycophants'.

sycophants - A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.

Do you really think that is fair?

Well if I thought John was influential then it would different

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:16 am

JohnVulich wrote: I also find it quite amusing to watch the Reason apologist/sicophants jump through the hoops that the Propellerheads have taught them to jump through.

thats kills me.

John, sometimes I agree with you (the first 100 times you say something), other times I disagree but seriously man you crack me up.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:27 am

braj wrote:It seems you have an axe to grind against Reason. Did Reason steal you girlfriend or sleep with you wife? Something?

The “axe” isn’t against the program. I own it and I like it very much. The “axe” is directed the Propellerheads for, IMO, being dishonest with some of their design strategies and at users who go to absurd lengths to defend these rationalizations.

braj wrote:Anyway, whatever your reasons, I think you're wrong. Combinator does allow a Reason user access to sounds they otherwise wouldn't have used, if they are quality or not is subjective. It makes it more usable as a performance tool. And the mastering stuff allows a user creating something completely in Reason to at least present a polished master without needing a separate app. Am I going to upgrade? Nope, it's not worth it to me. But I'll give 3.0 it's due respect at least. And I won't call people who choose to upgrade "apologist/sycophants'.

I’m beginning to think some of you just plain don’t know how to read.

I never said that the Combinator wouldn’t “allow a Reason user access to sounds they otherwise wouldn't have used”.

I never said anything about “sound quality”.

I never said it wouldn't make "it more usable as a performance tool".

I merely said it doesn't create sounds that can't be already created with 2.5. I've agreed over and over again that it CAN however make it easier and more performable to create these sounds. I've already made these statements several times and for someone who's criticized me for repeating myself you have a LOT of nerve questioning those statements again.

Unless your music is entirely instrumental the "Mastering Suite" in Reason is not going to be very useful. Surely the components can be used to great effect separately. However the Propellerheads are marketing it as a "Mastering Suite". They are also marketing Reason as "a complete music system".

Again, I'm not refering to those who are upgrading to 3.0 as apologist/sicophants. Where did I say that? Can't you read properly? Perhaps I wasn't clear or something. I am refering to the more rabid fanatic type that argue against the face of all reason and repeat the crap that the Propellerheads feed them.

Ok here’s my bottom line. I’ve watched over the years as Reason users have been asking for several important features. Chiefly they are VSTi hosting, audio recording/tracks and MIDI. I’ve also seen the Propellerheads spout out (IMO) one lame excuse after another as to why these won’t be implemented and the fanatic users repeat this gibberish ad naseum.

My opinion is that the Propellerheads most likely signed a non-competition agreement with Steinberg once they dissolved their partnership. Of course any time I bring this theory up I am treated like some kind of UFO conspiracy theory nut. The fact is that companies, the world over, engage in this sort of agreement every day of the week. This is especially the case when it’s an instance of splitting a partnership up. Do I have any proof of this? No. However there are a lot of facts that point to this as being the only “logical” solution.

The development of Rewire seems to be a major clue that supports this idea. It made it’s first appearance in Cubase for use with Rebirth. Steinberg, the former partner of the Propellerheads, were the first to implement its usage. All the features that Reason lacks are present in a Rewire host like Cubase. Rewire would obviously help drive users to other products that provide features that Reason lacks. I can't imagine that the resources required to create and maintain, for instance, audio recording, would be much different than those reqiured for creating Rewire.

The excuse that the Propellerheads constantly elicit for not implementing certain features is always… stability. This is utter crap. I can’t imagine audio recording would affect stability in any greater way then any other audio software device like a Soft Synth or FX. The same goes for MIDI output.

As far as VSTis go, creating a wrapper to host VSTi shouldn’t create instability. Using a VSTi with the wrapper absolutely could create instability, the wrapper shouldn’t. Those not wishing to risk instability could just avoid using the wrapper and VSTis. Others have commented on how Reason isn’t set up to work as a host due to its rack metaphor. However they seemed to have figured out a way to host Rebirth with no problems. Again, IMO, more lame excuses.

Obviously something is up. The excuses that the Propellerheads make just don’t hold water. I might be wrong in my assumptions but there is obviously some other reason than just plain stability and, IMO, the Propellerheads are being disingenuous about what that is. This is my real pet peave.

braj wrote:sycophants - A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.

Do you really think that is fair?

Fair… perhaps not.

Accurate… IMO, yes.

waveriderarts · Post by **waveriderarts** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:34 am

ianweb123 wrote:(unless you are talking about tarnce muso's who all want to sound exactly the same )

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:40 am

Have you had much coffee today John? If so then you NEED to tell me what brand your drinking.

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:41 am

soulkraka wrote:Have you had much coffee today John? If so then you NEED to tell me what brand your drinking.

LOL! I don't drink much coffee. However I am on a Magnesium kick right now...

http://www.pureessencelabs.com/ionicfizz.html

soulkraka · Post by **soulkraka** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:43 am

ionic fizz...fo shizzy

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:44 am

im no good at impressions

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:50 am

vurt wrote:im no good at impressions

Huh?

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:56 am

vurt wrote:im no good at impressions

Oh, I get. Nevermind.

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:59 am

sorry its my 3am rapier like wit

John Vulich · Post by **John Vulich** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:00 am

vurt wrote:sorry its my 3am rapier like wit

No, I'm afraid that it's my slowness.

Reason 3.0 demo impressions