Live 5 beta

[headquest]

And I'm glad you're enjoying P5v2, FaX.

For those making a choice, I don't think it boils down to comparing the iggly-wiggly details of feature sets - both apps are really powerful already, and offer loads. The important thing really is which you prefer for working in.

For me personally I tried the P5v2 demo but prefer Live because ...

* I felt that combining the Groove Matrix and Arrangement in one window makes the GUI messy/too crowded for my personal taste. There are now a few apps that claim their "one-window" presentation makes for an easier life, but I think that is a false logic. One-window presentations can rather lead to a messy GUI with missing features...

* The P5 Groove Matrix did not to me compare favourably against Live's Session view.

* I couldn't find an equivalent in P5 for Live's Warp Markers, which to me are its top feature.

* Similarly the P5 arrangement view still seemed very pattern based. I think that Live's Arrangement view lends itself better to linear work.

* I missed having a proper mixer interface. Live's console is very easy to use, with very clear routing, sends, etc. I don't like to have all this stuff confined to the track properties... it's too important in my eyes to be visually under-represented.

* Dimension wasn't included in the demo, and is said to be great (but a real CPU hog...) I would have liked to find out for myself before parting with £199

* The synths and effects that are included inthe demo didn't really do it for me.

These are simply issues of taste of course, and workflow. Respect to Cakewalk for a great product, which I think many people are going to have lots of fun and make great music with

[drez]

... Also, I believe Live5 allows you to freeze Rewire tracks so I'm guessing this will become even easier to deal with.

Sorry Braj, no can do. I'm beta'ing and it can't be done unfortunately.

In P5 if you're just routing the rewire through audio tracks (midi and audio can share the same track).
You just dump any midi clip into the audio track stretch it to the desired clip length and hit freeze.
You instantly get a frozen rewire channel of audio.
Hit Ctrl L and it acidises the loop for you and can be saved as a groove clip in your library of acid files for use in any project.

Pretty cool feature I might add.
And standard midi based rewire tracks (where you are sequencing the desired rewire modules from Reason will freeze also in the same way any VSTi would freeze by the way.

I'm suprised Live doesn't do this myself.

Actually, I bet Live would do that if you routed the Rewire track to another audio track Gotta get my hands on the beta.

Yeah, but what would you do about the other audio track?

[braj]

I dunno. Like I said, I need to try it myself. Regardless, for me P5 isn't an option since it isn't cross platform, so any discussion here of P5 for me is irrelevant.

[braj]

I dunno. Like I said, I need to try it myself. Regardless, for me P5 isn't an option since it isn't cross platform, so any discussion here of P5 for me is irrelevant.

[>v^<^^]

I read somewhere that support for time signature changes in the Arrangement view was planned for a future Live update. Any word on this?

IMO this basic function (albeit uncommon in pop music) is far too often overlooked in the new breed of sequencers (Live, FL Studio, Tracktion, etc). I've barely started learning Live so forgive me if it is already possible.

[FaX]

And I'm glad you're enjoying P5v2, FaX.

For those making a choice, I don't think it boils down to comparing the iggly-wiggly details of feature sets - both apps are really powerful already, and offer loads. The important thing really is which you prefer for working in.

For me personally I tried the P5v2 demo but prefer Live because ...

* I felt that combining the Groove Matrix and Arrangement in one window makes the GUI messy/too crowded for my personal taste. There are now a few apps that claim their "one-window" presentation makes for an easier life, but I think that is a false logic. One-window presentations can rather lead to a messy GUI with missing features...

I have dual monitor support on my laptop so I float and resize alot of the app on 2 screens + my laptop is a 17" wxga so I have 2 wide scree 17" monitors to work with (it does make a difference but you can work in just one or the other).
Though I agree it's work flow like any DAW wil not be to everyones liking.

* The P5 Groove Matrix did not to me compare favourably against Live's Session view.

I don't actually think the two are designed too be used in the same way myself. You can actually have linear view overide groove matrix , groove matrix overide linear view or the two of them working in tandem .
You can drag and drop from linear to groove or groove too linear and record from groove too linear or if you want have groove set up with totally different audio/midi clips to linear and jam stuff over the top etc .
Personally I find the marriage of the two more contructive too workflow.
I actually get work done this way where as in Live I have a swag of unfinished arrangements.
LIVE has far superior sample macro editing / splicing / consolodate commands etc etc.
Now I just rewire P5 straight into linear view in Live when I'm happy with everything

* I couldn't find an equivalent in P5 for Live's Warp Markers, which to me are its top feature.

True which i why i said I'm keeping Live 4 for all of it's supremo sample mangling features

* Similarly the P5 arrangement view still seemed very pattern based. I think that Live's Arrangement view lends itself better to linear work.

It is an it isn't really with the way the groove matrix works it maps tempo change like LIVE but also allows for full multi-time signature support which LIVE still doesn't so to me it wins out as I can record linearly straight into the arranger view in P5 + use patterns + groove matrix + tempo change + time signature changes also.

* I missed having a proper mixer interface. Live's console is very easy to use, with very clear routing, sends, etc. I don't like to have all this stuff confined to the track properties... it's too important in my eyes to be visually under-represented.

Doesn't really bother me at all as I prefer to mix using my ears but if you like that sort of interface yes LIVE is going to be much better in that respect


* Dimension wasn't included in the demo, and is said to be great (but a real CPU hog...) I would have liked to find out for myself before parting with £199

Dimension is stupendously good though with some 3gig sound library and capable of wave guide (physical modelling) , wavetable , sample and synthesis + vector ccontrol of all partials in a patch. oh it is quite possibly the best sounding VST I have. PSYNII borrows alot from Z3ta also and is a great subtractive synth with lots of bite

* The synths and effects that are included inthe demo didn't really do it for me.

i must admit the demo didn't win me over either.
Luckily I was given a very intensive instore demo by a great sales assistant (shock horror) who then let me mess around with the app for a few hours

These are simply issues of taste of course, and workflow. Respect to Cakewalk for a great product, which I think many people are going to have lots of fun and make great music with

I would totally agree 100% there and I don't think we should really try to compare hosts. I just think I've found the one I'm most productive with.
Which is the main reason for sticking with Live 4 + P5 rewired into it for me it's the best working environment 9this is probably becuae I am a far more midi centric and less loop/sample based composer I think) ..it may not be for anyone else though

[headquest]

I read somewhere that support for time signature changes in the Arrangement view was planned for a future Live update. Any word on this?

IMO this basic function (albeit uncommon in pop music) is far too often overlooked in the new breed of sequencers (Live, FL Studio, Tracktion, etc). I've barely started learning Live so forgive me if it is already possible.

In the Arrange view now you can simply right click to alter or remove the grid. This means that if you record scenes with alternate time signatures, you no longer need be put off by out-of-place-barlines in the Arrange view. I think this will help... it also makes Live's Arrange view look closer to Cubase/Logic's look.

Combined with this, You can easily add markers (which is particularly useful if you have removed the grid) to show sections, etc. There's also < and > buttons to jump between sections of the piece on the fly. A really good improvement here, I think, in how the Arrange view is presented. Much more flexible

[headquest]

Cheers for the feedback, FaX

I have dual monitor support on my laptop so I float and resize alot of the app on 2 screens + my laptop is a 17" wxga so I have 2 wide scree 17" monitors to work with (it does make a difference but you can work in just one or the other).
Though I agree it's work flow like any DAW wil not be to everyones liking.

Cool

i must admit the demo didn't win me over either.
Luckily I was given a very intensive instore demo by a great sales assistant (shock horror) who then let me mess around with the app for a few hours

I think I should try that, because I am genuinely interested in Dimension!

Cheers!

[astar]

REGARDING DEVICE CHAINS (from way earlier on in this thread):

It is true that in Live 5 beta you can't save device chains that include VSTs but there is an easy work around: the new Live clip (.alc) format. All you have to do is create a dummy clip and drag that clip to the browser and it saves the clip along with all information about the clip, envelopes and the track it was on (including VST effects and instruments and the appropriate settings). Works just like a device chain only better! When you drag the clip back in later everything is restored (including vst parameters).

This new clip format is a HUGE upgrade... it means that basically any idea is now very easy to save and reload later for further tweaking...

Live 5 is seriously sweet.. you have to hear the new complex timestretch, it is mint as well as the saturator!

[braj]

REGARDING DEVICE CHAINS (from way earlier on in this thread):

It is true that in Live 5 beta you can't save device chains that include VSTs but there is an easy work around: the new Live clip (.alc) format. All you have to do is create a dummy clip and drag that clip to the browser and it saves the clip along with all information about the clip, envelopes and the track it was on (including VST effects and instruments and the appropriate settings). Works just like a device chain only better! When you drag the clip back in later everything is restored (including vst parameters).

This new clip format is a HUGE upgrade... it means that basically any idea is now very easy to save and reload later for further tweaking...

Live 5 is seriously sweet.. you have to hear the new complex timestretch, it is mint as well as the saturator!

Awesome!

[olafmol]

can anyone betatesting Live 5b2 tell me if it's now possible to assign shortcut-keys to scrolling left and right and/or audio-scrubbing? in live4 it was only possible to zoom in/out using the +/- keys, and no scrolling left/right was possible using shortcut keys.... i think this option was really missing because it's much quicker to use keys or f.e. a contour shuttle to scroll through an arrangement

Olaf

[Reqs]

Wow, that news about the .alc format is great! I hadn't heard that yet!

[anti-banausic]

The LIVE clips are one of the BEST new features...among many others. But for creativity and keeping all those little ideas that you may spend hours tweaking initially....it is so awesome. It is going to change how i work.

[netsound]

Live 5 beta 2 still has pops and weird artifacts when using complex warp on drums, why? I though they fixed this problem in beta 2. This will be one of those things they will fix in 5.1? ....

[WillieJenkins]

mindrise, you're joking right? its been *6* days.