Record: New DAW from Propellerheads

[headquest]

It would also mean that you could still use those great MClass Mastering units post-mixer. With Record those units are unusable because the SSL is hardwired to the audio output (which is actually a whole lot LESS flexible than Reason of course). A strange decision, and I think it is the main cause of many of us finding the programme an ergonomic mess.

Well, just have tested Record and no, SSL is NOT hardwired to the audio output. No idea why you decided that. You can easily insert after it as much reason fx'es as you want.

As an insert effect you mean...? How else? You can't flip the SSL and do routing. Or am I missing something here?

Do you actually like the fact that they made the SSL seperate from the Rack then? It seems really counter-intuitive to me to have Mixers in the rack and seperate mixer afterwards. There are probably several reasons why people have found Record sich a PITA to use, but I think this is the biggie. YMMV.

[Breakpete]

As an insert effect you mean...? How else? You can't flip the SSL and do routing. Or am I missing something here?

You can't flip the SSL mixer, but you can route the master out of the Master Section device in the rack to anything you want. The MClass devices are also insert effects on the Master Device in the default setup, so you don't have to do any such routing to use them.

Oh, but the clutter. This app seems to be designed for people with access to a desk full of 30 inch screens. Sadly, I'm not one of them.

[headquest]

You can't flip the SSL mixer, but you can route the master out of the Master Section device in the rack to anything you want. The MClass devices are also insert effects on the Master Device in the default setup, so you don't have to do any such routing to use them.

I knew they were there as inserts, although not sure where that puts them in the signal flow. In Reason is it totally clear what order stuff is routed, and maybe in Record it is somehow possible to. The fact that I used it for two months without noticing that further routing is possible in the (totally seperate) Rack after the SSL mixer shows just how unintuitive Record is, even for somebody like me who has used Reason for several years... although maybe I was just put off digging deeper because I found it mostly unenjoyable to use from the get-go.

Oh, but the clutter. This app seems to be designed for people with access to a desk full of 30 inch screens. Sadly, I'm not one of them.

Agreed. I think that people will love Record who satisfy the following needs:

* Own multiple monitors - preferably three, one for each of the crucial windows...
* ...but have no outboard gear or synths
* Have absolutely no interest in any editing of their recordings whatever...
* ...But want an SSL mixer emulation (looks but not sound)...
* ...although without the ability to have busses (except using complex combinator setups outside of the main mixer).

Of the many people who will no doubt buy Record, it will be interesting to see how many fit this profile and still love it after 6 months.

[Breakpete]

Agreed. I think that people will love Record who satisfy the following needs:

* Own multiple monitors - preferably three, one for each of the crucial windows...
* ...but have no outboard gear or synths
* Have absolutely no interest in any editing of their recordings whatever...
* ...But want an SSL mixer emulation (looks but not sound)...
* ...although without the ability to have busses (except using complex combinator setups outside of the main mixer).

Indeed. The funny thing is, at least for people with a mac, Logic Express 9 just kills Record as a standalone application. Have guitar? Want to record? Logic 9 gives you better comping, better amp simulations, more editing possibilities, imho better workflow, and more/better instruments and effects. Add to this a cheaper price. It will also let you grow in the direction you want with third party instruments and effects.

I will say this though, the Record midi editor is superb.

[Dogboy73]

Of all the Record videos that are out there now I don't think I've seen one that actually shows someone using Record to record!

[grymmjack]

Agreed. I think that people will love Record who satisfy the following needs:

* Own multiple monitors - preferably three, one for each of the crucial windows...
* ...but have no outboard gear or synths
* Have absolutely no interest in any editing of their recordings whatever...
* ...But want an SSL mixer emulation (looks but not sound)...
* ...although without the ability to have busses (except using complex combinator setups outside of the main mixer).

Of the many people who will no doubt buy Record, it will be interesting to see how many fit this profile and still love it after 6 months.

your bullet list sums it up pretty good.

record = zzz

[blank/diod]

* Own multiple monitors - preferably three, one for each of the crucial windows...

On Windows it certainly makes life easier, yeah. On Mac you have Spaces, i.e. multiple virtual desktops, up to 16 of them (4 rows x 4 columns). You can switch between them in several ways, but the easiest is to hold a modifier key and then use the cursor keys to navigate to the desired space. When I work in Record I spread it out across 3 spaces. If I use it rewired to Cubase, I use 6 spaces, arranged as follows:

Top row:

Space 1: Cubase arrange window
Space 2: Cubase mixer
Space 3: VST/VSTi interfaces

Bottom row:

Space 4: Record arrange window
Space 5: Record mixer
Space 6: Record rack

Like this... (a lot of Cubase stuff is invisible here because the Spaces overview misses floating stuff like the transport panel, the VSTi panel etc)



It's convenient to the point where I don't miss my 3-monitor desktop setup when I'm working on my MacBook. There are plenty of ways to do the same in Windows... Deskspace, Virtual Desktop Manager etc.

[justmakemusic]

It would also mean that you could still use those great MClass Mastering units post-mixer. With Record those units are unusable because the SSL is hardwired to the audio output (which is actually a whole lot LESS flexible than Reason of course). A strange decision, and I think it is the main cause of many of us finding the programme an ergonomic mess.

Well, just have tested Record and no, SSL is NOT hardwired to the audio output. No idea why you decided that. You can easily insert after it as much reason fx'es as you want.

As an insert effect you mean...? How else? You can't flip the SSL and do routing. Or am I missing something here?

Do you actually like the fact that they made the SSL seperate from the Rack then? It seems really counter-intuitive to me to have Mixers in the rack and seperate mixer afterwards. There are probably several reasons why people have found Record sich a PITA to use, but I think this is the biggie. YMMV.

I will try to explain.

It's easier to use than to write about.

Anytime you create a new track, a new device will appear in the rack, either as an Audio Device or a Mix Device(for a MIDI instrument).

Each track on the SSL mixer has an insert FX area, it looks like a vertical combinator, you can put whatever effects you want in the combinator and control all the effects with the 4 buttons and 4 knobs.

You can flip the rack and see what would have been on the back of the SSL, on a track by track basis, by looking at the back of any Audio Device or Mix Device. You will see the insert effects 'combinated' here. The send effects on the master section work in a similar way.

There are an abundant amount of connections on the back of each audio/mix device, which you can choose to ignore (keep it simple)it will automatically route the devices for you or you can dig in at your hearts content.

For those that wish to dig in...here's whats on the back...

L&R Input
L&R Dynamics
Side Chain Input/Key with CV control of gain reduction
CV control of 'Pan' and 'Level'
L&R Insert FX In
L&R Insert FX Out
4CV inputs controlling the 4 knobs on the insert combinator

and finally to answer your question above...

..L&R Direct Out!

I have been beta testing on a 1.6 GHz 1GB, 1280 x 800 pixels-laptop with no problems. The demo song 'Push Me Down' has 26 tracks and well over 100 devices full of samplers,compressors,Thor, Subtractor, effects audio tracks etc.

Navigation becomes easy using the navigators on the right hand side and you can also move from any window to another window with the 'window-shade' devices. (Easier to show than explain!)

There are also a couple of buttons at the bottom of each mixer channel.
Press either button and you are taken directly to the associated sequencer channel or rack device. No hunting required.

I made a track last night using both Reason and Record, had a lot of fun, very happy with the result, both the workflow and navigation were transparent. I just concentrated on the music.

The two together, sound amazing together, Reason seems to sound better too, the top end sparkles and the bottom end can thump if you want it to.
The ID8 device will get a lot of use too.

I highly recommend that if your work flow will allow it, to give the software a really good beta test and allow for a small amount of time to get use to how GUI works.

I will be using this as my main 'DAW'. I'll sometimes use other software as a sort of construction zone occasionally, but ultimately everything will come back into Record. No more complicated than if I had to grab an acoustic instrument to finish up a track.

[Jeremy_NSL]

I am still finding myself hunting a bit with f5, f6, and f7. Part of the problem is that I've used Reason so much, I expect it to work as before . Its just a bit of a learning curve to use Record's shortcuts.

I agree that separating the mixer/rack creates additionally complexity for sure. But if you prefer, you could completely ignore the new mixer and just go with the old 14:2.

What I'm most concerned about w/ regards to Record is Rewire-mode. Its not possible to actually record audio in Record when its Rewired (say that 5 times fast!). I understand that's a Rewire limitation, but its still quite strange. So if I Rewire into Tracktion, I have to record my audio in Tracktion. But isn't the ease of recording, audio quality, comping, stretching the whole point of using Record in the first place?

So Rewire needs some work IMO - it really should be a Rewire Master not Slave - but other than that its a really promising app.

[5.1]

What I'm most concerned about w/ regards to Record is Rewire-mode. Its not possible to actually record audio in Record when its Rewired (say that 5 times fast!). I understand that's a Rewire limitation, but its still quite strange. So if I Rewire into Tracktion, I have to record my audio in Tracktion. But isn't the ease of recording, audio quality, comping, stretching the whole point of using Record in the first place?

I think this is similar to my reason for deciding not to purchase Record. I've really enjoyed using it during the beta, but when I compared it to my current setup - Reason rewired into my DAW of choice - the only extra benefit Record would give me is the time stretching, and that's not enough to justify the US$149.

Cheers,

Malcolm.

[koolkeys]

It's convenient to the point where I don't miss my 3-monitor desktop setup when I'm working on my MacBook. There are plenty of ways to do the same in Windows... Deskspace, Virtual Desktop Manager etc.

Just curious, but do you know of any in Windows(I've tried the ones you mention, but couldn't get them to work) that actually let you drag the Cubase mixer to another desktop? Even the ones that let me drag it there, they would drag all of Cubase with it. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

I currently use a hotkey to switch between the mixer and the main screen(using a workspace), and I work just fine with this setup, but always looking at options for the sake of knowing what is out there.

Brent

[blank/diod]

Just curious, but do you know of any in Windows(I've tried the ones you mention, but couldn't get them to work) that actually let you drag the Cubase mixer to another desktop? Even the ones that let me drag it there, they would drag all of Cubase with it. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

Well, virtual desktop apps don't like it when the UI is split across a dozen different windows like in Cubase where there's a mix of regular and floating ("stay on top") windows. It doesn't work all that well on Mac either. I can drag the mixer and the VST/VSTi windows to another Space provided that I've disabled "stay on top" (make sure you've unchecked that option on anything you want to drag to another desktop), but the transport bar and any other windows that won't let you disable "stay on top" will appear in all Spaces. So when I switch desktops it's only a part of the Cubase UI that changes.

With Record it behaves as intended because the three windows (sequencer/mixer/rack) are standard windows that work fine with virtual desktops.

[NAS]

I have been beta testing on a 1.6 GHz 1GB, 1280 x 800 pixels-laptop with no problems. The demo song 'Push Me Down' has 26 tracks and well over 100 devices full of samplers,compressors,Thor, Subtractor, effects audio tracks etc.

How weird i am writing a review of it on a 2gig laptop with 1 gig of RAM and to be honest i think it is the most CPU hungry host i have ever come across in my life
Whoops did i say host sorry hehehehehe

This is the first time i have written a review where i am actually going to tear the product apart
Usually you can find a lot of useful things in any item you review but beyond the great timestretch algo i'm kind of at a loss why the hell they even bothered making this product


NAS

[headquest]

I have been beta testing on a 1.6 GHz 1GB, 1280 x 800 pixels-laptop with no problems. The demo song 'Push Me Down' has 26 tracks and well over 100 devices full of samplers,compressors,Thor, Subtractor, effects audio tracks etc.

How weird i am writing a review of it on a 2gig laptop with 1 gig of RAM and to be honest i think it is the most CPU hungry host i have ever come across in my life

My laptop has 2Gb RAM, 7200rpm harddrive, etc, powerful machine. And that demo would not play on my machine at all without stopping and an error message appearing.

On the beta test forum there were loads of people saying the same thing. The explanation given is that the debug code was the cause of the CPU hit. I can see that would make *some* difference, but seriously, I'm not convinced that Record is going to have the CPU optimisation and stamina that the marketing claims. Time will tell.

[blank/diod]

How weird i am writing a review of it on a 2gig laptop with 1 gig of RAM and to be honest i think it is the most CPU hungry host i have ever come across in my life

Not possible, unless you're using a beta with debug code in it, or missed some other basic thing. Justmakemusic is right, Record flies on low-end machines, just like Reason. Otherwise it wouldn't be a Propellerhead application. You might wanna look into that before you write a review, otherwise you'll have a bit of a credibility problem and come off as a camera critic who forgot to take the lens cap off.

On the beta test forum there were loads of people saying the same thing. The explanation given is that the debug code was the cause of the CPU hit. I can see that would make *some* difference, but seriously, I'm not convinced that Record is going to have the CPU optimisation and stamina that the marketing claims. Time will tell.

It doesn't make "some" difference, it makes a day and night difference because their debug code is brutal. Every single operation is analyzed and logged, and it hampers performance a LOT. Using the release version is just like using Reason in terms of CPU load. On my MacBook Pro 2.8 GHz using the internal soundcard, 44.1/16 and 64 samples (1 ms), the DSP meter never goes above 3 segments while playing "We Get It On". Three segments. Three.