Record: New DAW from Propellerheads

[headquest]

Yes, but the point is that made it difficult to test whether Record is CPU friendly (as claimed) or not. And IIRC that is one of their big claims. As I said, time will tell, and I'll be interested to see.

[fceramic]

How weird i am writing a review of it on a 2gig laptop with 1 gig of RAM and to be honest i think it is the most CPU hungry host i have ever come across in my life

Just love the hate machine over at KVR. Before it was Reason now the bitter gear junkies are gonna rage against it's big sister Record.

Record is the most stable and efficient Sequencer on the market. I had a track with 18 quite advanced combinators without even reaching halfways.
With record you can now also bounce midi instruments to audio.

Record have not crashes one single time while Live 8 has crashed 20 times and logic 8 about 10 times (while using plugins though).

It's not close to as advanced as Logic 9, but that's not the point.
Standalone it should be cheaper I agree, but the 149$ upgrade is great for a Reason user as it does fulfill many features that Reason users have longed for.

[blank/diod]

Yes, but the point is that made it difficult to test whether Record is CPU friendly (as claimed) or not. And IIRC that is one of their big claims. As I said, time will tell, and I'll be interested to see.

Not sure what you mean by "time will tell"? Debug code free versions were made available to testers during the final phase of closed beta testing, and the open beta that's out there now is the release version. AFAIK it's available to all beta testers and anyone who signed up subsequently.

[fceramic]

BTW do I agree with that Record SHOULD have just been Reason 5. But I guess they wanted to make a big thing about the record feature and of course make more money.
That is quite sleazy.

[headquest]

Yes, but the point is that made it difficult to test whether Record is CPU friendly (as claimed) or not. And IIRC that is one of their big claims. As I said, time will tell, and I'll be interested to see.

Not sure what you mean by "time will tell"? Debug code free versions were made available to testers during the final phase of closed beta testing, and the open beta that's out there now is the release version. AFAIK it's available to all beta testers and anyone who signed up subsequently.

I decided to wait for the full release version before clogging up my system with all the stuff it installs TBH. When I went to uninstall Record beta using the Propellerhead instructions I was stunned by how many different things needed to be deleted - all the PACE stuff, Codemeter stuff, Authorisation beta stuff, in addition to Record itself. Plus it screwed up my Rewire .dll and they wanted me to uninstall and reinstall Adobe Flash each and every time. There's only so much abuse my windows registry can take - maybe on a mac that's not a problem?

Even having followed all the Props instructions to the letter, every time I reboot Windows the "Propellerhead logs" folder reappears in my documents folder. Considering the amount of clutter I already removed following the instructions, it's depressing that stuff still keeps reappearing. In terms of creating a mess on your system, Record has set a new level...

(any tips on how to stop this clutter reappearing still?)

Anyway, as I say when the release version is out I may well try that. Although I think I probably made up my mind that Record does not suit my personal workflow very well, or offer anything close to what I already have in terms of features.

[blank/diod]

BTW do I agree with that Record SHOULD have just been Reason 5. But I guess they wanted to make a big thing about the record feature and of course make more money.
That is quite sleazy.

How is it "sleazy" if they're offering Record to existing Reason users for the same price that Reason upgrades usually cost? You would've paid the same if it had been called Reason 5.

I know it's hard to get into electronic musicians' heads, but there are actually people who don't want to pay for a whole bunch of synths, drum machines and loop mashing whatchamacallits and fill up half their hard drive with sample libraries when all they want to do is record some drums, vocals and guitar. Most products on the market seem to assume that any musician who goes near a computer is automatically a synth freak. Props wanted to reach a new demographic outside the typical Reason/VSTi synth freak club. That's not going to happen if you offer them the same product they didn't buy before.

[blank/diod]

There's only so much abuse my windows registry can take - maybe on a mac that's not a problem?

Honestly I wouldn't know... I used PCs for 18 years and got this Mac a month ago. I'm still a Windows dude but I grew tired of all the problems with firewire audio in Vista and Win7... I haven't enjoyed glitch-free firewire audio since XP. So for audio stuff I'm on Mac now. No ASIO4All, no ASIO crap at all, just hassle-free low-latency playback with the native drivers. Here's a screenshot from my MBP while playing the "We Get It On" demo... notice the audio settings, the DSP meter and the song position (this is in the middle of a chorus, one of the more intense parts).

Even having followed all the Props instructions to the letter, every time I reboot Windows the "Propellerhead logs" folder reappears in my documents folder. Considering the amount of clutter I already removed following the instructions, it's depressing that stuff still keeps reappearing. In terms of creating a mess on your system, Record has set a new level...

If you're getting log files you have beta versions of the ReWire and REX DLLs, period. Do a system wide search and delete anything and everything called ReWire.dll or REX Shared Library.dll. If those don't exist when you start Reason or Record, they will be automatically installed.

So... uninstall Record beta and CodeMeter, delete the log folder, delete the Rewire/REX dlls and the Record preferences... there can't be more to it because it doesn't install anything else. Pace? What's Pace got to do with Record?

[fceramic]

@blank
I see your point, but keep in mind that Reason doest come with a very big library and I'm sure the 3 synths are not gonna clog up anything except for maybe the tool window.

A lot of people I know who use Logic have no clue about all the synths available and just use the basic effects and the sampler. Record is also such a general improvement that it's actually no point using Reason alone.

So Reason basically only adds 3 synths (two of which are really old) and four really outdated samplers. I love Reason, but charging more than twice the price for the bundle (which IMO should be a single product) is completely ridiculous.

Record is clear win for Reason users, but a fail for new users (especially if they are on Mac and can just get Logic Studio which is cheaper and comes with a trillion more things).

If the marked is aimed at more novice producers and self recording musicians then they need to change the price.

[headquest]

If you're getting log files you have beta versions of the ReWire and REX DLLs, period. Do a system wide search and delete anything and everything called ReWire.dll or REX Shared Library.dll. If those don't exist when you start Reason or Record, they will be automatically installed.

Thanks for the help. I think I overlooked deleting rex and rewire .dlls becuase I assumed I would still need them to run Reason. But you are saying Reason will find and install them afresh?

Pace? What's Pace got to do with Record?

Very, very good question. Propellerhead require it uninstalled when you remove the Record beta. Presumably - like Flash - it is reinstalled when you install the next beta version...

Before you install RC1 you need to do a complete uninstallation of the beta versions. If you have already performed this uninstall you don't have to do it again before installing RC2 and later versions.

Here are the steps for uninstalling the Record Beta on Windows XP:

- Restart the computer

- Open the "Control Panel"
- Open "Add or Remove Programs"
- Uninstall "CodeMeter Runtime Kit"
- Uninstall "Record Beta"
- Uninstall "Authorizer Beta"
- Uninstall "Adobe Flash Player 10 ActiveX"

- Open the file explorer (press "Windows Key" + E or double-click "My Computer" on the desktop)
- Type the following path into the address bar: %ProgramFiles%
- Press return
- Find and delete the folder "CodeMeter"

- Type the following path into the address bar: %ProgramFiles%\Propellerhead
- Press return
- Find and delete the folder "Record Beta"

- Type the following path into the address bar: %APPDATA%
- Press return
- Find and delete the folder "Propellerhead Software\Record"
- Find and delete the folder "PACE Anti-Piracy"

- Type the following path into the address bar: %ALLUSERSPROFILE%\Application Data\Propellerhead Software
- Press return
- Be sure to backup any Remote codecs and/or Remote maps you have installed or modified for use with Reason and/or Record!
- Find and delete the folder "Remote"

- Type the following path into the address bar: %ALLUSERSPROFILE%\Application Data\Line 6
- Press return
- Find and delete the folder "L6TWXY"

- Type the following path into the address bar: %TEMP%\..\Application Data
- Press return
- Find and delete the folder "PACE Anti-Piracy"

- Type the following path into the address bar: %SystemRoot%\System32
- Press return
- Find and delete the file "REX Shared Library.dll"
- Find and delete the file "Rewire.dll"

- Type the following path into the address bar: %TEMP%
- Press return
- Find and delete the folder that starts with you user name (login name) suffixed by a '_' and a number

- Restart the computer

I was not aware of having PACE on my system pre-beta testing, and it was there when I followed these instructions. Go figure...

[blank/diod]

So Reason basically only adds 3 synths (two of which are really old) and four really outdated samplers. I love Reason, but charging more than twice the price for the bundle (which IMO should be a single product) is completely ridiculous.

How are they charging "twice the price"? Record is $299 (suggested retail price). Reason is $499 (SRP). That's $798. The bundle is $629 (=$169 bundle rebate), and $629 translates to $499 (that's the price ZZounds and others are already advertising before it's out). So in reality people will be paying the Reason SRP for the whole bundle.

Ableton Live Suite = $849 (SRP)...

Very, very good question. Propellerhead require it uninstalled when you remove the Record beta. Presumably - like Flash - it is reinstalled when you install the next beta version...

Weird... doesn't make sense. PACE = iLok. CodeMeter is from WIBU Systems, it has nothing to do with PACE.

[headquest]

A better price comparisson would be with Steinberg's Sequel, which is also a closed environment with loads of included instrument sounds like ID8 (better), effects, etc. Currently around £52 in UK, about $75.

[blank/diod]

A better price comparisson would be with Steinberg's Sequel, which is also a closed environment with loads of included instrument sounds like ID8 (better), effects, etc. Currently around £52 in UK, about $75.

Sequel?! Sequel is barely GarageBand territory, a tinker toy for beginners. I'm not seeing any SSL mixers there. Record is the big sister of Reason, Reason is used by thousands of professionals, Sequel is used by zero professionals.

[TristezaOrange]

Sequel?! Sequel is barely GarageBand territory, a tinker toy for beginners. I'm not seeing any SSL mixers there. Record is the big sister of Reason, Reason is used by thousands of professionals, Sequel is used by zero professionals.

If they offer similar functionality, why does it matter if Reason (and perhaps Record) are used by professionals? It's a fair comparison. I get paying for a brand (I am as guilty of this as anyone else) and that's what it is. Even the SSL mixer doesn't matter if it just *looks* like SSL, which is what a lot of people are claiming (not me, I haven't beta tested Record).

Actually, if Record's only difference from Sequel is the fact that its brother, Reason, is used by a lot of professionals, that's hilarious.

[blank/diod]

If they offer similar functionality, why does it matter if Reason (and perhaps Record) are used by professionals?

But they don't offer similar functionality any more than Sequel and Live or Cubase offer similar functionality. Sequel is capped at 44.1 kHz, Record is not. Record's mixer is 64-bit, Sequel's is 32-bit. Sequel has a hardwired mixer with a basic 3-band EQ and a compressor with a single knob, Record has a full blown SSL-style 4-band EQ and dynamics processor on every channel. Sequel's routing flexibility is virtually non-existant, while in Record you can route anything to anything, Reason-style, till your head spins. Record has elastic audio with a kickass timestretch algorithm and swipe editing for multiple takes, Sequel has nothing of the sort. Sequel's output is limited to a single stereo pair, hardware-wise, Record can be routed to up to 64 hardware outputs (across multiple interfaces provided that your system and drivers can handle it, e.g. aggregate audio devices on OS X). Are you honestly telling me you can't distinguish a pro-grade product from a beginner package because the feature set is limited (this is v 1.0, you know)? What do you go by, the number of blinking lights?

[TristezaOrange]

If they offer similar functionality, why does it matter if Reason (and perhaps Record) are used by professionals?

But they don't offer similar functionality any more than Sequel and Live or Cubase offer similar functionality. Sequel is capped at 44.1 kHz, Record is not. Record's mixer is 64-bit, Sequel's is 32-bit. Sequel has a hardwired mixer with a basic 3-band EQ and a compressor with a single knob, Record has a full blown SSL-style 4-band EQ and dynamics processor on every channel. Sequel's routing flexibility is virtually non-existant, while in Record you can route anything to anything, Reason-style, till your head spins. Record has elastic audio with a kickass timestretch algorithm and swipe editing for multiple takes, Sequel has nothing of the sort. Are you honestly telling me you can't distinguish a pro-grade product from a beginner package because the feature set is limited (this is v 1.0, you know)? What do you go by, the number of blinking lights?

Hey, I said "if" didn't I? I said that if they share similar functionality, it's a fair comparison, no matter how many "pros" use Propellerhead products. Obviously, they don't (share similar functionality, that is). Unlike some people on KvR I am mostly satisfied with my host and I don't go looking at spec sheets for fun. I'm good, my host gave me audio recording functionality (1-click, no less ) years ago without charging me or forcing me to use another program.

Blinking lights are cool, though.