Cherry Audio Voltage modular

[cherryDan]

Here's our next tutorial video, and it's perhaps the most inventive one yet. This video shows how to use an envelope generator as an envelope follower to create unique audio effects. Then, a ring modulator and noise source is used to morph a basic drum beat into a unique high-hat track. There are tons of great ideas in this video!


Stay safe, everyone!
- Dan @ Cherry Audio

[cherryDan]

Hi Jens,

@Cherry Audio: Paypal subscription? You must be kidding. First time I ever saw that shady Paypal window.

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about. Perhaps you were trying to activate the one-click purchasing option in Voltage Modular?

We don't have any sort of subscription to Voltage Modular.

- Dan @ Cherry Audio

[jens]

I herewith submit exhibit A into evidence:

[pekbro]

^ That's not a subscription, just an agreement that lets CA charge your paypal account if you ever make any purchases. Save's you from going through the checkout thing every time. Easier for them to collect your money that way. Many companies do the same. Though it is a way that companies can handle subscriptions if that's on offer. VM is definitely hugely geared towards commerce, detrimentally so imho. I can never see preventing people from giving away stuff (more than one product) for free as a good thing for the community.

[Russell Grand]

Womp womp

[pekbro]

Maybe it would be nice to have a non-commercial option for any who might want it. Perhaps the $10 minimum charge could still be afforded if the actual profit was slated to be donated to charity. That way someone could release whatever modules they wanted as part of a package that would initially cost the minimum charge, which would go to charity and they wouldn't have to deal with the business part. Of course CA would have to cover their costs, but beyond that, possibly moneys could be earned for some good causes.

Maybe even a goodwill bundle that people could contribute to, with profits slated for charity. That might afford some developers an more palatable avenue for porting some of their free stuff to VM.

[whyterabbyt]

I herewith submit exhibit A into evidence:

Yes, that's the standard Paypal agreement for remembering your Paypal details for speeding up any future transactions, and nothing at all to do with a subscription as you alleged. Exactly as it says in the text.

Case dismissed. Court costs and an apology to Cherry Audio please.

[Mushy Mushy]

Dash is always good value:


Even if you're not into these sounds it's quite informative.

[jens]

^ That's not a subscription, just an agreement that lets CA charge your paypal account if you ever make any purchases. Save's you from going through the checkout thing every time. Easier for them to collect your money that way. Many companies do the same.

I don't really care how you call it. In order to be able to purchase, you are forced to subscribing to a one-click payment. You don't have a choice. They don't ask. In order to purchase, you have to agree.
Also I had "remember payment method for future purchases" unticked.

This is certainly not at all an option for me. First of all, I have a sensitive touchpad (plus touchscreen) and I often browse on my phone, where it's super easy to accidentally click something while scrolling.
I all the time click stuff I don't want to click.

Then it removes the Paypal choice for the currency conversion. I live in Switzerland, where the currency is CHF, but my Swiss credit-card is in €. Paypal automatically assumes it was in CHF though
and so far I did not manage to change that. Automatically, Paypal would thus automatically convert to CHF and then my CC-provider had to do another conversion to €. Will I agree to give up this choice of mine, and for all future purchases from the Vendor too? I certainly won't.

Either way, I can not see how it could be considered okay to enfore this to the customer and without clear notice. You have to be careful (read the Paypal pop-up carefuly) or you will have subscribed. I think it's super shady. The reason seems clear to me: they don't want to make purchasing more comfortable, they instead want to increase the chance for impulse purchases. Dirrrty.
If they want to make stuff easier for their users, they can implement replace-buttons and automatic cabling for the modules in VM instead.

[jens]

an apology to Cherry Audio please.

Don't hold your breath.

[whyterabbyt]

^ That's not a subscription, just an agreement that lets CA charge your paypal account if you ever make any purchases. Save's you from going through the checkout thing every time. Easier for them to collect your money that way. Many companies do the same.

I don't really care how you call it. In order to be able to purchase, you are forced to subscribing to a one-click payment. You don't have a choice. They don't ask. In order to purchase, you have to agree.

That's an utterly disingenuous twisting of the term 'subscrbing to' versus the 'subscription' you were bleating about. A truly Trumpian effort in twisting the words to avoid admitting that you got it wrong, eh?

[whyterabbyt]

And before you try it again, you specifically used the term 'Paypal subscription' which is a very specific thing that is most emphatically not 'subscribing to a one-click-payment agreement with Paypal' (where the latter is nothing more than you using the word 'subscribing' as a synonym for 'agreeing')

[jens]

^ That's not a subscription, just an agreement that lets CA charge your paypal account if you ever make any purchases. Save's you from going through the checkout thing every time. Easier for them to collect your money that way. Many companies do the same.

I don't really care how you call it. In order to be able to purchase, you are forced to subscribing to a one-click payment. You don't have a choice. They don't ask. In order to purchase, you have to agree.

That's an utterly disingenuous twisting of the term 'subscrbing to' versus the 'subscription' you were bleating about. A truly Trumpian effort in twisting the words to avoid admitting that you got it wrong, eh?

And before you try it again, you specifically used the term 'Paypal subscription' which is a very specific thing that is most emphatically not 'subscribing to a one-click-payment agreement with Paypal' (where the latter is nothing more than you using the word 'subscribing' as a synonym for 'agreeing')

I don't know what a "Paypal subscription" may be. I frankly and honestly have no idea.

After wasting time on trying to avoid this enforced subscription to one-click payment for a future purchases I used Google in order to possibly still come up with a solution after all. People on those pages I landed on called it subscription. But it was German sites and tbh I am not even perfectly sure anymore whether they used the term subscription or something like "Abonnement". Either way there certainly was neither an error or misunderstanding on my part nor any disingenuinity.


But choice of words on my side aside and even if people normally refer to something else when using the term subscription, it should have been perfectly clear as to what exactly I was Talking about since the Paypal screen says in plain text, as you correctly pointed out before.

Exactly as it says in the text.

This.

And now suddenly we discuss that this subscription is not a subscription even though you have to subscribe to it because a subcription means something else, instead of discussing that the buyer is forced to subscribe if he wants to purchase, which was my actual point?



Name me one other VST-Vendor who does the same.



But shame on me that I used the word "subscription" for this subscription. Mea culpa. What would be the correct i.e. agreed upon term instead btw?

[whyterabbyt]

Its still not a subscription no matter how many times you say it. The Paypal popup doesnt use the term at all, it uses 'agree' and 'authorize' but not subscription.

So how come you're calling it a subscription, not an agreement or authorisation? Let me wonder if you'd have jumped up shrieking about a 'Paypal agreement' or 'Paypal authorisation?'

Hmmm, I doubt it.

Would you be calling out a 'Paypal authorisation' as 'antics' or 'making warnings about 'people getting roasted for much less' for a Paypal agreement?

Nah.

Is it likely you have at least one existing agreement for a company ( like Amazon, for example) to store your credit card details to simplify transactions.

Absolutely.

Does anyone believe you would make a fuss about the company 'getting roasted for less' on the basis of keeping those details being a subscription?

Unlikely.

And do you have a prior history of railing against software subscriptions? Where the use 'subscription' means something quite specific and not the same as you're currently using it?

Hmmm, yes.

Not buying your attempt retcon. Flail and backpedal all you want, I think we all know what happened here. You lashed out based on a complete misunderstanding, and you're doing all you can to avoid admitting it.

Done here.

[jens]

I am not backpedalling at all. I am totally apalled by this, however you may call it. "By this" means enforced one-click payment. Again: the emphasis is on enforced here. Would it be optional that of course would be perfectly fine. But it isn't.
I can't purchase via Paypal without agreeing to future one-click payment. That is was I was objecting to right from the start. And I still am. And frankly I am stunned that nobody else seems to care. I would have assumed they receive major flak for it - and deservedly so.

Btw.: the reason I used the term "subscription" is that this is what this Paypal feature is typically used for so the references I found when quickly googling for it (in German though, as I mentioned before) were mentioning it in the light of this.