KVR Audio

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:58 am

envy,
i have not meant any harm at all. in no way. i know nbeat for a long time now and i love his gui. also i haven't followed the thread consistently either and haven't realised his work was based on yours. but i like this gui he did. and i wanted to show my appreciation on this.
i had a jx8p as well as an jx10 + programmer. i know nbeats version doesn't look as original as yours does (which is also very good btw), but i don't give a f**k if it looks original or not. i like what i see and that's what i state here.

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:06 am

brok landers wrote:envy,
i have not meant any harm at all. in no way. i know nbeat for a long time now and i love his gui. also i haven't followed the thread consistently either. but i like this gui he did. and i wanted to show my appreciation on this.
i had a jx8p as well as an jx10 + programmer. i know nbeats version doesn't look as original as yours does (which is also very good btw), but i don't give a f**k if it looks original or not. i like what i see and that's what i state here.

OK, no sweat.

I had just gotten out of bed when i read your post so my interpretational skills probably werent fully online yet.

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:08 am

sorry... i haven't realised that his work actually is based on yours...

layzer · Post by **layzer** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:50 am

ENV1 wrote:What a strange comment, considering that this 'stunning work of his' is really the black skin i showed earlier that day and that nBeat merely altered my screenshot.
Seriously, sometimes i really dont understand what it is that makes people say what they are saying.

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:57 am

brok landers wrote:sorry... i haven't realised that his work actually is based on yours...

This was the original:

1wob2many · Post by **1wob2many** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:53 am

GUI design by committee?

Good luck with that ENV1.

martin_l · Post by **martin_l** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:44 am

1wob2many wrote:GUI design by committee?

Good luck with that ENV1.

I think, we had plenty of input and suggestions already.

I would suggest that ENV1 and me just take it from here, and continue the design offline. Continuing to discuss it here will probably not lead anywhere...

I might consider to make it user-skinnable for the next version, so every body can implement their own preferred GUI.

layzer · Post by **layzer** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:05 pm

martin_l wrote:
1wob2many wrote:GUI design by committee?

Good luck with that ENV1.
I think, we had plenty of input and suggestions already.

I would suggest that ENV1 and me just take it from here, and continue the design offline. Continuing to discuss it here will probably not lead anywhere...

I might consider to make it user-skinnable for the next version, so every body can implement their own preferred GUI.

if making it skinnable delays things, F' it... screw everyone and use ENV's latest rendition. i think 99.9% of all users will be happy!

your synth engine + ENV's gui = WIN! go team go!

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:21 pm

Right, so heres some more feedback on the operational side.

- Oscillators: Is it intended behavior that DCO-2 would phase-freeze and phase-lock to DCO-1 when FineTune is set to +3? Audio and Preset here. FT=+3, just set it to 2 or 4 and then back to 3 to hear the effect.

- Sliders: Right now the sliders are going directly to the position where the mouseclick happens. This means that if you want to pick up the slider to move it just a little bit, it often moves way off the original position and you have to re-tweak even more than you originally intended to. Hence i was wondering, could the sliders perhaps be made such that they respond to the mouse as they did in the SE version, i.e. not jump to where you click with the mouse? (I know, it responds to the mousewheel too, but still.)

- Preset Handler: If i use the hosts preset manager to save a preset as .fxp, and later re-import that .fxp, the presets actual name is shown neither in the hosts preset manager nor in the plugins own alphanumeric display. Both of them simply continue to show 'INIT'. When i use the hosts preset manager to name or re-name a preset, the hosts preset manager updates its own display upon pressing Enter, but the synths own display still continues to show 'INIT'.

- Global Volume: Certain sounds are many decibels below 0dB even at full oscillator gain and full VCA Level. The preset i included above serves as an example. Its Peak is circa minus 8.6dB, its RMS circa minus 15.5dB. A possible remedy would be to add a global volume control that provides some gain reserves when needed.

martin_l · Post by **martin_l** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:41 pm

layzer wrote: if making it skinnable delays things, F' it... screw everyone and use ENV's latest rendition. i think 99.9% of all users will be happy!

your synth engine + ENV's gui = WIN! go team go!

That's why I was saying that i might consider it for a future version. Not for now. The version 2 will be with ENV1's GUI, which we are going to finalize.

Martin

martin_l · Post by **martin_l** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:50 pm

ENV1 wrote:Right, so heres some more feedback on the operational side.

- Oscillators: Is it intended behavior that DCO-2 would phase-freeze and phase-lock to DCO-1 when FineTune is set to +3? Audio and Preset here. FT=+3, just set it to 2 or 4 and then back to 3 to hear the effect.

Yes, that is intended. The hardware also has sightly detunes Oscillators at FineTune=0.

- Sliders: Right now the sliders are going directly to the position where the mouseclick happens. This means that if you want to pick up the slider to move it just a little bit, it often moves way off the original position and you have to re-tweak even more than you originally intended to. Hence i was wondering, could the sliders perhaps be made such that they respond to the mouse as they did in the SE version, i.e. not jump to where you click with the mouse? (I know, it responds to the mousewheel too, but still.)

Try pressing SHIFT first. As far as I remember that is the 'fine' mode for sliders, which does not jump immediately. I will have a look whether I can use some other modifier to distinguish between jumping and picking up.

- Preset Handler: If i use the hosts preset manager to save a preset as .fxp, and later re-import that .fxp, the presets actual name is shown neither in the hosts preset manager nor in the plugins own alphanumeric display. Both of them simply continue to show 'INIT'. When i use the hosts preset manager to name or re-name a preset, the hosts preset manager updates its own display upon pressing Enter, but the synths own display still continues to show 'INIT'.

You should save and load banks or presets in the internal formats using the WRITE and SAVE buttons. The host will only be able to save the current patch, but not the whole bank.

- Global Volume: Certain sounds are many decibels below 0dB even at full oscillator gain and full VCA Level. The preset i included above serves as an example. Its Peak is circa minus 8.6dB, its RMS circa minus 15.5dB. A possible remedy would be to add a global volume control that provides some gain reserves when needed.

I was also thinking of that. But should it be a global volume? Having it per patch does not really make sense, because then i should really just make it all louder.

I still need to check whether the VCA scale behaves correctly.

Cheers,
Martin

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:33 pm

martin_l wrote: Yes, that is intended. The hardware also has sightly detunes Oscillators at FineTune=0.

I see.

Just thought id ask because usually you would have to enable OscRetrigger/PhaseReset for this to happen.

martin_l wrote:Try pressing SHIFT first. As far as I remember that is the 'fine' mode for sliders, which does not jump immediately. I will have a look whether I can use some other modifier to distinguish between jumping and picking up.

Yup, holding SHIFT seems to work just fine.

Thanks for the heads up.

martin_l wrote:You should save and load banks or presets in the internal formats using the WRITE and SAVE buttons. The host will only be able to save the current patch, but not the whole bank.

Thats OK, i only want to save single presets. (Thing is i organize my presets in .fxp format whenever i can so it has become sort of a habit to do it even if the plugin has its own preset manager.)

Anyway, the fact that the preset name isnt updated/restored when presets are saved and reloaded as .fxp or .fxb can become a problem when you have many instances with different presets in a project/performance and they all say INIT upon reloading. Thats the situation i currently experience with VSTHost, which is why in the future i will have to name the instances to see what is what. Its probably the same with other hosts so i just thought id mention this in case you didnt know that thats what happens right now.

martin_l wrote:I was also thinking of that. But should it be a global volume? Having it per patch does not really make sense, because then i should really just make it all louder.

Global Volume was a bad term. What i actually meant was basically an extra Gain Control that allows you to make individual presets louder when necessary. (Like in the case of the preset id posted above.) This parameter would of course have to be per-preset so that its value is stored and restored only for the preset that actually required the extra volume. Sorry if i confused you.

layzer · Post by **layzer** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:03 pm

the volume output is indeed lower in pg8x than most VSTs... many times i have
the pg8x assigned fader maxed and all other faders adjusted considerably lower in my DAW.

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:11 pm

Guys... stop.
Seriously.
The original GUI is good, Martin will make few little adjustments to some control locations and it will be perfect.
With how the synth sounds, i would be happy even with REAPER default DAW UI.
It is a bit surreal to read the last 40 or so pages just about the shade of grey which is totally irrelevant here...

martin_l · Post by **martin_l** » Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:12 pm

layzer wrote:the volume output is indeed lower in pg8x than most VSTs... many times i have
the pg8x assigned fader maxed and all other faders adjusted considerably lower in my DAW.

I can surely pump it up in the next release. One can always pull the fader down, if it get's too loud...

PG8X (inspired by the JX8P): new beta version uploaded