Software vs. Analog in 2025 – Has the Balance Shifted?

[Bunny_boy]

That book's from 2006 and uses the term "EDM". That makes me feel old

[stoopicus]

That book's from 2006 and uses the term "EDM". That makes me feel old

Three years later is about where the genre peaked, really

[_leras]

will the balance shift to the thread with the poll?
should we have a poll to see what we think about that?
ad infinitum.

Probably 50% of the posts in this thread are from one person banging on the software can do anything and sounds as good as hardware in all situations.

Yep. No doubt, the most epic monologue in KVR history

If you're talking about me, thank you for the compliment. Epic is what I strive for. But I never say "in all situations."

But for many situations, yes, software can be just as good.

No, I wasn't talking about you. It's funny your name is zero crossing as in this thread you most decidedly crossed over from software evangelist to touting the uniqueness of your (quite decent) synth collection.

[Bunny_boy]

That book's from 2006 and uses the term "EDM". That makes me feel old

Three years later is about where the genre peaked, really

That's a very slow-acting pill

[stoopicus]

That book's from 2006 and uses the term "EDM". That makes me feel old

Three years later is about where the genre peaked, really

That's a very slow-acting pill

The high was worth the wait

[_leras]

And the sound really still stands out. Even the sounds you can make with cheap analogs like the Pulse 2. I just checked some pads I made with it a while ago (Pulsewave unison poly mode) and they sound so sweet <3

As a former Pulse 2 owner, I assure you, it does not sound that great, though it does have an interesting character.

I have a couple of Waldorf Pulses and they can sound fantastic. I can get some absolutely searing leads out of these things.

It's quite a mini sized beast.

[_leras]

Again, for someone who thinks that techno is simply "leaving the drum machine on combined with some white noise" will get something out of this book.

Well... we don't know what techno tracks Apple came up with so... it was probably a good description.

It's not as though techno doesn't have drum machines and white noise. Some IS just drum machines...

[IvyBirds]

LOL, you didn't read the book. It's not about distribution or production and had you read the book you would have known that. In fact, since you claim to have it, a two-minute browsing of the TOC would have told that that's not what the book is about.

Only I did read the book, and I stand by what I wrote because as you say it's a book about "what makes techno techno" written 20 years ago

And what made techno in 20 years ago isn't what makes techno in 2025 which is my point, and the context of what Zerocrossing did when he played music on his phone

20 years ago you didn't ask Siri to play techno hits, and /or didn't fire up a techno playlist on Spotify

The way music gets produced and distributed in 2025 is very different than it was 20 years ago

20 years ago someone who was a fan of a book would be able to articulate what that book was about, rather than have to rely on Chat GPT because someone else has a different interpretation of the book and how it applies to the current music scene

But I get it, logic and reason have waved bye bye to you and you are grasping at straws, you think a book from 20 years ago should dictate what Zerocrossing was able to stream on his phone in his car about what Techno is or isn't

So if you want a book about what made techno techno in the Mid 2000s that quotes all kinds of things from years early it's great

You also ignore the reality that the book is about EDM not just techno and the Author uses the term EDM probably a thousand times in the book

What we call EDM and Techno is very different today than it was 20 years ago unless you are specifically taking about "classic" techno or EDM, which is again my point

[Gamma-UT]

The examples in Butler's book are pretty much all techno – Detroit tracks like Jerical – aside from the proto-techno stuff like Sharevari. It's pretty clear he's not writing about what people now think of as EDM or indeed the trance-with-drops EDM that was springing up around that time. And he spends most of his time on the rhythmic aspects, hence the title.

I disagree with him on the importance of metrical shift that's in one or two of the early chapters as these effects largely disappear in DJ sessions, but that's only a small part of the book. Most of it focuses on the idea of a full mix becoming a track in its own right with ideas like "hypermeter" (that wouldn't apply to drop-intensive EDM). That aspect really hasn't changed at all in techno.

The only real difference is that he didn't spend much time on the Berlin and "angry bloke"/stompy techno that seemed to take over for a while. As the Detroit influences got rediscovered in recent years, I don't think the book is as out of date as you like to pretend.

[IvyBirds]

The examples in Butler's book are pretty much all techno – Detroit tracks like Jerical – aside from the proto-techno stuff like Sharevari. It's pretty clear he's not writing about what people now think of as EDM or indeed the trance-with-drops EDM that was springing up around that time.

But he calls it EDM, but now you have done it, you have said what we think of as EDM/Techno today is not what he was writing about

Now you will get a LOL and a lecture and a Chat GPT cut and paste telling you how you never read it.

[Gamma-UT]

But he calls it EDM, but now you have done it, you have said what we think of as EDM/Techno today is not what he was writing about

Now you will get a LOL and a lecture and a Chat GPT cut and paste telling you how you never read it.

EDM was common as a term through the 90s - it's electronic music you dance to. It is why the term IDM exists, for all the bleepy stuff you can't dance to.

The fact the original term got repurposed has very little to do with the contents of the book.

[zerocrossing]

The main take away from the book is that Techno is all about the beat

Is that all that you got from it?

Was I supposed to get more? It's a 20 year old book, music production and distribution has changed massively in the past two decades

It's heavily focused on DJs playing music in clubs.

Is anyone actually making a living in 2025 making techno, cutting it to vinyl and then having some random DJ play it in some random club?

Are hobbyists even getting DJs to play music in some random club in 2025? Is that the goal?

LOL, you didn't read the book. It's not about distribution or production and had you read the book you would have known that. In fact, since you claim to have it, a two-minute browsing of the TOC would have told that that's not what the book is about.

Again, for those who care about understanding what makes techno techno, it's a great read. Christ, you could have just asked ChatGPT to summarize the book for you. At least then you might have said something intelligent about it.

Here, I did the hard work for you

You said Summarize Mark Butler's book "Unlocking the Groove"

ChatGPT said:

"Unlocking the Groove: Rhythm, Meter, and Musical Design in Electronic Dance Music" by Mark J. Butler is a musicological study that analyzes how rhythm and meter function in electronic dance music (EDM), especially house and techno. Drawing on ethnographic research and close listening, Butler argues that EDM challenges traditional Western notions of meter, favoring cyclical, non-teleological structures designed for bodily engagement in dance contexts.

Key points:

• Cyclicality and Repetition: EDM emphasizes loops and cycles rather than linear progression, creating a hypnotic sense of time.

• Microrhythmic Detail: Small deviations in timing and articulation (often humanized via manual programming or live performance) are critical for groove.

• Metric Ambiguity: Many tracks play with metrical expectations, using syncopation, polymeter, and phase relationships to destabilize the listener’s sense of beat.

• Performance Practice: DJs and producers shape music in real time through sequencing, filtering, and layering, making performance a central site of creative expression.

• Embodiment: The book emphasizes the role of the body, particularly through dancing, in perceiving and interpreting rhythmic structures.

Butler integrates music theory, cultural studies, and ethnography to assert EDM’s complexity and validity as an art form deserving analytical attention.

Again, for someone who thinks that techno is simply "leaving the drum machine on combined with some white noise" will get something out of this book.

Are there any characters with magical powers in the book? If you want my daughter to read it, there has to be some magic. Talking cats are a bonus.

What's funnier is that our conversation was about context in terms of a musical performance. The story started when she said that the only thing she likes about football is the Super Bowl commercials and the half time show, but she didn't like last years rap show. I explained that I also didn't like it, but I felt that it was because that kind of music doesn't lend itself to a stadium performance. I offered up Techno as an another example of music that doesn't really work when you take it out of a dance club, and we went through a bunch of different dance genres that would work great in a dance club, but not great outside of one.

[vurt]

gamecat speaks.

[Bunny_boy]

we went through a bunch of different dance genres that would work great in a dance club, but not great outside of one.

Techno, house, drum n bass totally works in a field

[slackhead]

Glad I could help. Shortest vid I´ve ever seen

I reckon if you cut out the silence this would be even shorter (and its a full song)