Sonar 5 has arrived...

[WillieJenkins]

and the tracks will be 12.78% less cluttered and bloated

[Jaeson Merrill]

If you find those tracks cluttered, I suggest you go here

and what does this have to do with anything?

perhaps the GUI desingers of sonar should have taken this course?

[DeBro]

This view of bloatware and clutter is a boat load of crap. The GUI is highly configurable to one's tastes. There are options to hide things if you so desire without loosing functionality. Here's a shot of my default work space in the recently released SHS4. Key bindings and keyboard shortcuts have replaced buttons. The right mouse button is also very useful. If you don't want the midi inline view, you can close it. The colour scheme has changed dramatically and a lot of things have been removed from the initial launch view.

If this is true, DeBro, then Cake should pay someone to spend a lot of cycles designing pre-built layouts. But having spent a lot of time editing (and customizing) Sonar, I think that it is a deeper problem.

In fact, I think that the customizable approach used by Sonar is actually the cause of the problem. It leads to a situation in which the marketeers at Cake can purchase new morsels from most excellent small independent software creators who hang out on KVR, and then jam these new instruments and effects into their customizable framework with impunity.

At the same time, they can see Abes coming over their shoulder, and jam a bunch of stuff into the product that makes it possible to claim on their website that it has the same features (even though those features don't actually work in a useable way since the realtime response is abominable, the number of clicks is rediculous, etc. etc....)

And so on...

That's utter nonsense. Have you ever read a feature request thread in the Sonar forum. People wanting this, that, and the other. Cakewalk took the customizable aproached to the GUI to accomodate users with different tastes and workflow. I for one am happy with my version of Sonar and I'm creating music and getting work done without any impediment. They'll be getting my upgrade money in the future. Long Live Cakewalk.

[WillieJenkins]

hahaha, I'm mostly just antagonizing you guys. I do think you're absolutely bonkers for not thinking Sonar has the best interface, but I respect everyones right to choose.

[hello1234]

I predict that Sonar 5 will make my music 25% better.

Not 20-40% better..........

Yep, I'll say it again.......I'll never get over that thread..........

[Old Crab]

Does the in-line editing capabilities pertain to the following?
Currently in Sonar, if you load a dxi synth, say Atmosphere, you get an audio track and a midi track. So you start playing. The midi track “records” the midi info. The audio track does not load audio data. That track does not even have a Record button. You can load effects into that track that will be added when you bounce down, but you can’t actually record audio data using a dxi synth in real-time. Am I right so far?
It would be nice to be able to do that in order to use some of the midi-uncontrollable controls in a given synth.
For example, say you load a Reaktor-5 synth and begin playing. Meanwhile, you slide the morph control gradually between two patches. You would like to record the transition in real-time, but when you bounce to track, you receive whatever is the final position of that control. Am I missing something here?

[Jaeson Merrill]

hahaha, I'm mostly just antagonizing you guys. I do think you're absolutely bonkers for not thinking Sonar has the best interface, but I respect everyones right to choose.

hey, every one has their own workflow and opinion.

I like to hear WHY people like a certain interface, to see if perhaps my workflow could be improved

[opiadream]

And finally...NATIVE VST SUPPORT!!! No more wrappers!!! Midi outputting VSTi's working properly without the need for loopback devices or other workarounds!!!

go figure! I just finally broke down and bought DirectXizer last night.

so why the hell couldn't they implement native vst support when they updated P5?

bastards

agreed, but if I had said that, you would have jumped all over me.

with a fly swatter

[Jaeson Merrill]

This view of bloatware and clutter is a boat load of crap. The GUI is highly configurable to one's tastes. There are options to hide things if you so desire without loosing functionality. Here's a shot of my default work space in the recently released SHS4. Key bindings and keyboard shortcuts have replaced buttons. The right mouse button is also very useful. If you don't want the midi inline view, you can close it. The colour scheme has changed dramatically and a lot of things have been removed from the initial launch view.

If this is true, DeBro, then Cake should pay someone to spend a lot of cycles designing pre-built layouts. But having spent a lot of time editing (and customizing) Sonar, I think that it is a deeper problem.

In fact, I think that the customizable approach used by Sonar is actually the cause of the problem. It leads to a situation in which the marketeers at Cake can purchase new morsels from most excellent small independent software creators who hang out on KVR, and then jam these new instruments and effects into their customizable framework with impunity.

At the same time, they can see Abes coming over their shoulder, and jam a bunch of stuff into the product that makes it possible to claim on their website that it has the same features (even though those features don't actually work in a useable way since the realtime response is abominable, the number of clicks is rediculous, etc. etc....)

And so on...

That's utter nonsense. Have you ever read a feature request thread in the Sonar forum. People wanting this, that, and the other. Cakewalk took the customizable aproached to the GUI to accomodate users with different tastes and workflow. I for one am happy with my version of Sonar and I'm creating music and getting work done without any impediment. They'll be getting my upgrade money in the future. Long Live Cakewalk.

(jerky boys voice:) Very proud of ya, sizzlechest!!!

[ztutz]

That's utter nonsense. Have you ever read a feature request thread in the Sonar forum. People wanting this, that, and the other. Cakewalk took the customizable aproached to the GUI to accomodate users with different tastes and workflow. I for one am happy with my version of Sonar and I'm creating music and getting work done without any impediment. They'll be getting my upgrade money in the future. Long Live Cakewalk.

Works for you, that's cool. But I'm glad that you disagree so vehemently!

I also get work done with it, swearing all the way. Rather than padding, I'd like to see more improvements to the audio engine, streamlined workflow, and a major design update.

I'm certainly not suggesting that customizable UI is bad, just that it doesn't actually solve the problem. It *does*, however, add to the complexity of using the product, and forces all workflows into the same general model. It also makes support more difficult by making problems harder to find and debug, resulting in frustrated users. It slows down internal devs who would like to innovate or improve by changing the "Sonar standard", because they can't. (Although it helps plugin devs, because the target platform stands still!) There are good things about tweakability, but it comes at a cost and is not a replacement for design.

Now those funky Ohmforce skins, those say something about tweakable UI.

[womoma]

Hats off to CAKEWALK!

Theyve refined their package wonderfully, listened to their customers and been generous with their bundles.

Sonar 4 is already an excellent product and Sonar 5 is going to put Sonar on the map.

Sorry but.. I have to say it...

IN YOUR FACE CUBASE USERS!!

....im not listening ... im not listening!!

[Tronam]

It leads to a situation in which the marketeers at Cake can purchase new morsels from most excellent small independent software creators who hang out on KVR, and then jam these new instruments and effects into their customizable framework with impunity.

That's an interesting point, too. It surprises me that Cakewalk don't come in for the same criticism as Apple/Logic...

Apple (relatively big) buy EMagic (relatively small) and thereafter cease support/availability for everyone other than their own customers (i.e. Logic becomes Mac only).

Cakewalk (relitively big) buy Ultrafunk (relatively small) and thereafter cease support/availability for everyone other than their own customers (i.e. Sonitus effects become Sonar only).

I find it hard to tell the differece between the two (from a *moral* or *business* perspective).

And yet Apple become hated by loads of people, while Cakewalk are congratulated for making a wise purchase. What gives?

Sonitus:fx isn't really the best example for making your point. The reason why the Sonitus bundle ended up in Cakewalk's hands is that Ultrafunk was essentially hanging up their hat for good and not interested in developing it any longer. They looked for prospective buyers and Cakewalk won the bid. I think Steinberg missed a great opportunity to bolster their arguably mediocre effects bundle, but then again, I'm glad that Cakewalk ended up with them because we might actually see further developments on it in the future. I suspect that Steinberg contracts a lot of those projects out and does very little inhouse development on things other than their core applications. Besides, it makes more sense. Ultrafunk has always been DX/VST PC *only* (and vehemently so ). If Steinberg were to have purchased the bundle, they would have had to port it over to the Mac to maintain dual-platform compatibility, which I seriously doubt they would commit to. Cakewalk was a much more natural fit, especially since Ultrafunk also fully supported DirectX.

-Tronam

[lanfear]

Really, folks, highly advanced software is always going to LOOK Complex until you dive in a learn the basics.

Amen. That's what I've been trying to say all the time.

I can't wait for the in-place editing, enhanced envelope drawing and the clip FX!

[Lunch Money]

It doesn't have those things yet?

[Jaeson Merrill]

yeah, sontitus just closed its doors before cakewalk got em, so it was really a very good thing for them.