KVR Audio

putte · Post by **putte** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:03 am

.. ja, old mail still valid ..

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 10:16 am

popsych wrote: Still wish they hadn't killed the windows version but i can see why Apple being a hardware company at it's heart ( a mistake IMHO)

Of course I also wish they wouldn't have killed the Windows version (which is still the most stable sequencer for me), but now that Apple is catching up with some competitive computers and prices (at least in Apple terms...), I can see the benefits as well.
The amount of choice on the PC platform is exactly what makes it difficult to decide when building a high end audio machine.
People are discussing about AMD vs. Intel and then there's your 1086891268789s of mainboards to chose from, some simply not working with, say, UAD cards, others not delivering proper SATA drivers, etc etc.
Yes, there's some hardware problems on the Mac side of things as well, but usually these get adressed more or less quickly and there's just *one* company doing the job.

Sure, there's a lot of other things driving me mad as well, such as 2 HDD and 3 PCI slots only.
Heck, even my 7 year old audio PC (now working as my net machine) could hold 6 HDDs and at least the ones running on the SATA bus are still faster than those on almost all G5s (audio data throughput is really lousy on those, compared to a modern Windows box).
Also, just recently I configured a machine with 2 UADs, 1 PoCo and a MoTU PCI card. Working absolutely flawlessly. Impossible on a Mac, unless you get some Magma expansion chassis or go for firewire options - in either case a whole lot of money has to be spent.

Anyways, I can also see the benefits of things such as core audio. There's no native audio driver allowing for buffersizes as low as 32 samples under Windows. And no, ASIO4All usually doesn't cut it because it's introducing a more or less massive audio recording offset (at least it's been like that on all machines I tried with).

In the end, I can see advantages in both platforms. That's why I'll be using both rather soon.

Now, if they only added something useful like Windows' explorer under OSX (I just happen to hate the finder).

OMU · Post by **OMU** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:50 am

Sascha, my english is not so good so I don't have an exact idea of what you mean with printing effects while recording but I know Logic can bounce in real time and when you do that you can, let's say, play with an instrument (tweak the knobs on your cntroller etc) and everything is recorded as audio. I did that with the Neuron VS for example as its parameters can't be automated in the AU version.

stag · Post by **stag** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:51 am

Not to mention people allergic to 0SX, such as I.
I would like to try Logic, but on PC, OSX is simply nuts, i swear i have some kind of bio response when i look at it... i even feel a little rash when i open an Apple PC.

A..AA...AAAAAAATCHOOOOO!!!sorry

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:47 pm

Yeah OMU, I know about the "input realtime bounce".
But there's two drawbacks:

- To get individual tracks with "printed" FX you need to route their output to a separate output. Otherwise they'll be printed into a master stereo file.
Now, this is only working with cards offering more than two outs - and Guitar Rig only has a stereo pair, so this simply won't work.

- When bouncing tracks, you gotta put them into the arrangement manually. Could live with that, but as said, there's no workaround for this on a PC with Logic 5.5.1.

Will have a look for FX freeze, no idea whether that's working in Logic.

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:54 pm

Sascha Franck wrote:Now, if they only added something useful like Windows' explorer under OSX (I just happen to hate the finder).

Between LaunchBar and PathFinder I never use the Apple Finder, which is an abomination indeed.

Victor.

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:02 pm

VicDiesel wrote:
Sascha Franck wrote:Now, if they only added something useful like Windows' explorer under OSX (I just happen to hate the finder).
Between LaunchBar and PathFinder I never use the Apple Finder, which is an abomination indeed.

Victor.

why have I never heard of PathFinder?
thanks for the tip

CorrosiveGod · Post by **CorrosiveGod** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:53 pm

I've been using Logic 5.5.1 PC for a good while and I like it and it is the only host I can tolerate. I've kept on using it despite its age and having to tolerate some plugins crashing Logic.

The PC that I am using now is the last Windows machine I will ever own. It's served me good but it's time that I switch to OS X for Logic 7. I just want an OS with built-in pro audio support and MIDI support. I don't want to wait any more for Microsoft to get their shit together.

popsych · Post by **popsych** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 4:42 pm

CorrosiveGod wrote:I've been using Logic 5.5.1 PC for a good while and I like it and it is the only host I can tolerate. I've kept on using it despite its age and having to tolerate some plugins crashing Logic.

The PC that I am using now is the last Windows machine I will ever own. It's served me good but it's time that I switch to OS X for Logic 7. I just want an OS with built-in pro audio support and MIDI support. I don't want to wait any more for Microsoft to get their shit together.

Microsoft have their act just fine. I will switch as well but the reason is Logic. Both OSes are excellent and Windows in its XP incarnation is a damn fine OS as opposed to what most people will have you think. And I prefer the customization and the fact that I am more fluent in windows (and programming), however Logic 5.5.1 is feeling dated now and it's time i made the big leap. Just give me the new core design of CPUs in an Apple tell me it's stable and i'm sold. That is unless samplitude can copy the arrange tools, environment and automation of logic. Then i'll have no reason to switch.

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:55 pm

VicDiesel wrote:
Sascha Franck wrote:Now, if they only added something useful like Windows' explorer under OSX (I just happen to hate the finder).
Between LaunchBar and PathFinder I never use the Apple Finder, which is an abomination indeed.

well, PathFinder has turned out to be the best £20 I've spent for a while

VicDiesel · Post by **VicDiesel** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:10 pm

spaceman wrote:well, PathFinder has turned out to be the best £20 I've spent for a while

Annoyingly, version 3 had the "custom shelves" feature that they haven't added to version 4 yet. On my one machine I'm staying with v3 for that reason. Suits my workflow better.

But on the whole an excellent product.

Victor.

spaceman · Post by **spaceman** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:49 pm

VicDiesel wrote:
spaceman wrote:well, PathFinder has turned out to be the best £20 I've spent for a while
Annoyingly, version 3 had the "custom shelves" feature that they haven't added to version 4 yet. On my one machine I'm staying with v3 for that reason. Suits my workflow better.

But on the whole an excellent product.

Victor.

I'm using Tiger so no option here

the fact I can use cocoa gestures is a 1000% workflow improvement

OMU · Post by **OMU** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:28 pm

I like the finder, especially the columns view, no problems for me

jasonsantiago · Post by **jasonsantiago** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:16 am

"People are discussing about AMD vs. Intel and then there's your 1086891268789s of mainboards to chose from, some simply not working with, say, UAD cards, "

Considering Apple dumped PCI for PCI express IMO UAD on the apple is more problematic than it ever was on the PC, because there is no PCI express UAD.

jasonsantiago · Post by **jasonsantiago** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:24 am

You're joking right ? Logic can beat cubase any day for plugin count.

Are you sure you understand what I meant? I meant in total plugins available to choose from, VST has more total. I don't think anyone can argue against that. If you want to argue how many plugins can be loaded *at a time* on identical machines, I have no idea. I'm just saying the VST spec provides more options. Apple shouldn't have dirched it.

I mean what's the point of having plugs using CPU when they're not doing anything. That's just plain dumb.

I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to. That's not what desctructive editing is -- they take up no CPU at all since the file is processed.

I've never had a song where all tracks where going on at the same time so Logics save on CPU would balance the non-destructiveness for CPU reasons. I won't argue that when it comes to destructive editing Logic is years behind cubase, but i will argue that if that's the reason you're using cubase then you're using the wrong host.

It's a balance of feature set (destructive editing, good delay compensation, release ASIO driver in the background, etc.) as well as ease of use. I find logic very unlogical personally. It's not that my favorite feature is destructive editing, it's just that its something absolutely required by me in a sequencer. If the host doesn't have it, forget it.

The host you want is Samplitude and now the copy of it's features Sonar. Samplitude has powerful destructive and even more powerfull non-destructive object based effects and still the coders have managed to keep idle plugins from consuming CPU even though the audio engine must be immensely more complicated.

Sonar has poor plug-in compatibility IMO because it wraps all VST plug-ins into new versions for it to handle. It also has a destructive editing limit of 25 seconds, also unacceptable.

I did use Cubase before affording Samplitude but now i have no reason to. If samplitude got Logic's Midi (which it does to some extend - similar setup in editors) and environment then i would not need any other host except wavelab for mastering and that only now that version 6 is out with pretty wicked features.

[/quote]

I haven't used Samplitude so I can't comment. Perhaps it's fantastic, but it sounds like it is lacking in MIDI features.

I don't think Cubase is perfect by any means, but I was simply responding to the author's assertion that Logic was far and ahead of other sequencers -- maybe for some, but certaintly for me it's behind the curve.

The I Love Logic thread