LennarDigital Sylenth1

[Dominus]

I think this line pretty much sums up the view of many others in this thread. And actually I'm starting to see why many thought so. The thing is, I seemed to be coming out of the blue with a new (and my first) synth, and I haven't even introduced myself. Nor did I explain any of the techniques I developed and used in this synth.

I wasn't referring to you being new here on KVR specifically, but new in the softsynth world. Slam together one or two freebies and post them here, then add a few hundred presets to Sylenth1, and drop the price to $79 and you'll probably see a lot better ROI.

[ouroboros]

Like I said, it's a good sounding synth, and I came up with some decent sounds in the 5 minutes I played with it, but it's overpriced for someone new on the scene.

I think this line pretty much sums up the view of many others in this thread. And actually I'm starting to see why many thought so. The thing is, I seemed to be coming out of the blue with a new (and my first) synth, and I haven't even introduced myself. Nor did I explain any of the techniques I developed and used in this synth.

So let me tell you something about myself. As some of you probably already expected, I am definitely NOT a newcomer to the world of audio and DSP. I have an Masters degree in Electrotechnical Engineering, specialized in Digital Signal Processing and Acoustics. I have studied and worked well over 10 years on advanced projects like an improved multichannel active noise control algorithm and the inversion of acoustical impulse responses.

Next to that I love making music and sounds. I started producing about 15 years ago, and was very fascinated by the development of VST synths and effects. I have tried many many VSTs but had a hard time finding the perfect synth. I mean, there are a lot of good synths out there, but they all seemed to have a some kind of shortcoming. Some have nice filters, but too few options. Others have a great user-interface but bad sounding oscillators. Others have a nice overall sound but totally burn up the CPU. And so on..

So, quite naturally, I started my quest to design the perfect synth from ground up. I did a lot of research on current synthesis and effect techniques and started to improve them. I designed new algorithms and implemented and tested them in Matlab. After that I converted them to C++ code, optimized them and then re-implemented them using high performance Streaming SIMD Extensions.

I found that SynthEdit was a useful tool for testing individual effects and objects. My initial goal was to rebuild the whole synth using the VSTSDK afterwards, but I found that using SynthEdit as a shell for my modules hardly degraded performance anyway. So I decided to keep using it, mainly because it allowed easy graphical implementation of the user interface. There were some problems I had to tackle, like hacking around SE's voicemanagement system to override it with my own, but that seemed to be worth the trouble. Finally I changed the extension of SE's modules to add a little bit of extra security and to make it less obvious that it was made using SynthEdit (but that kind of backfired on me).

Face it, SynthEdit simply does not have a good reputation in the high-quality audio market, and that is not without reason. SynthEdit's standard modules and the available third party modules simply are not built for very high quality sound, nor for extremely high performance. Next to that, the majority of SynthEdit developers simply lack basic DSP knowledge or programming skills. So I don't think it's hard to understand that I didn't feel like shouting from the rooftops that I used SE in building this synth.

Anyway, that still leaves the question: Is Sylenth1 too expensive? Personally I think it's not, and it is, for a fact, definitely NOT the most expensive synth on the market. But everyone is entitled to have his own opinion ofcourse. If you think it's overpriced, that's fine.

Sure, I could have used SynthEdit's default modules and build the whole thing in just a few weeks. Then I would've asked like 30 bucks for it. But I didn't. I didn't want to create "just" another synth like those thousands of others out there, all with that same typical sound caused by the same modules or the same DSP algorithms from musicdsp.org everyone uses. So instead I spent well over a year of hard work to create a synth that is perfect in my opinion.

Then there were some people comparing it to synths like Adventus or Vanguard. Well I can only say: Try loading them all up in your host and really compare them. If you still don't notice any difference, then Sylenth1 simply is not a synth for you. Or maybe you do notice it, but you don't think it's worth the extra cost. That's perfectly fine with me, but you don't need to go trashing it (or me). That only shows your immaturity.

Anyway, I will be writing some things about the techniques I used in this synth, and put them on my website later, if anyone's interested.

And by the way, I'm also not new to KVR. I've been rambling on the developers forum before, using this account:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/search.ph ... or=BarendB

Hope that clears things up. And for the people who wrote nice things about my synth: Thanks a lot!

Cheers,
Lennard
www.lennardigital.com

Hi Lennard,
Good show, man: small developers have such an uphill battle. I like the sounds of the demos, but the price point is beyond me: that being said, I wish you well and appreciate your effort to be candid without being defensive with a fickle crowd I can only imagine that will serve you well in your endeavour. You have my respect.

[Lennard]

then add a few hundred presets to Sylenth1

I'm working hard on that part. But I want to add only high quality presets. Sure I could use a random generator and create 500 crappy presets, but that would be ripping people off IMO.

The thing is, you seem be searching for an average synth at a cheap price. Then search along, there are lots of these available already!

I want to deliver top-quality only, and I believe that's worth a lot more.

[Lennard]

Hi Lennard,
Good show, man: small developers have such an uphill battle. I like the sounds of the demos, but the price point is beyond me: that being said, I wish you well and appreciate your effort to be candid without being defensive with a fickle crowd I can only imagine that will serve you well in your endeavour. You have my respect.

Thank you

[mistertoast]

>>Anyway, I will be writing some things about the techniques I used in this synth, and put them on my website later, if anyone's interested.

Please do. I'm glad you stuck up for yourself.

[kevvvvv]

Lennard

I'm working hard on that part. But I want to add only high quality presets. Sure I could use a random generator and create 500 crappy presets, but that would be ripping people off IMO.

Right on

[Kire]

then add a few hundred presets to Sylenth1

I'm working hard on that part. But I want to add only high quality presets. Sure I could use a random generator and create 500 crappy presets, but that would be ripping people off IMO.

The thing is, you seem be searching for an average synth at a cheap price. Then search along, there are lots of these available already!

I want to deliver top-quality only, and I believe that's worth a lot more.

Hi!

Please let me know if I could be at any help with the presets!

//Kire

[Xenos]

Hmmm...now that I have downloaded the demo and actually played with it, I have to say I really dig those filters as they resonate very well in the low frequencies-- something I don't see that often in other synths.

[himalaya]

I've just read the whole thread and no one has yet commented that a synth which is apparently designed to compete with the likes of Z3ta+, hasn't got stuff like PWM, osc sync, osc fm or ring modulation. No arppegiator ( ok, not that important), no aftertouch ?


So my question to Lennard, if it's not too late, are these features to be implemented in future updates or is Sylenth1 to remain free of them ?

I like the sound, I like the GUI, I like the effects, but it's not enough to tempt me from, for example, Tassman's analog synths. There's simply not enough sound shaping options for deeper sound design. Have I missed them ? Are they there ?

[twister]

Hi!

Please let me know if I could be at any help with the presets!

//Kire

Lennard, please DO consider Kire for presets!!! He did magic with Z3ta+ and its still #1 downloaded soundbank at Patch Arena.

[Improv]

Hi!

Please let me know if I could be at any help with the presets!

//Kire

Lennard, please DO consider Kire for presets!!! He did magic with Z3ta+ and its still #1 downloaded soundbank at Patch Arena.

How long since you've been to Patch Arena? It's been closed for updating for a couple of months, if not longer.

[Reverse Engineer]

Dunno if anyone has seen this:

2 Oct 2006
As of today, the demo version and the full version of Sylenth1 have been updated with a full bank of 128 presets. We're quite excited about this news, because the new presets sound really great and their diversity shows just how versatile Sylenth1 is.

Be sure to try them out, download the new demo.

[verstaerker]

i found the presets in the demo boring
work out more presets that show better the quality and capabilities of your synth

[Lennard]

I've just read the whole thread and no one has yet commented that a synth which is apparently designed to compete with the likes of Z3ta+, hasn't got stuff like PWM, osc sync, osc fm or ring modulation. No arppegiator ( ok, not that important), no aftertouch ?

So my question to Lennard, if it's not too late, are these features to be implemented in future updates or is Sylenth1 to remain free of them ?

You can do PWM by slightly detuning (pulse) oscs, that creates the same effect. For example, take a pulse osc, set it to 2 voices, set stereo to 0, and give it some detuning. You can also use 2 oscillators with 1 (or more) voice each, and use the "fine" knob to detune them. With the Phase knob you can change the starting point of the oscs, and if you modulate the phase of one part that'll definitely create some nice PWM effects.

Frequency (and ring-) modulation can be done using the LFO's (check the SFX section presets from the latest demo version), but there's no hardsync. I didn't add that because high quality hardsync would make the oscs heavier on the CPU. Instead you can create lots of harmonically rich effects by using all 4 oscillators in unison.

I might add an arpeggiator later, but you can do that also pretty easily with a MIDI arp or step sequencer (which can give some pretty neat effects by the way, especially when you also step-sequence parameters like the filter cutoff! The "filtered noise sequence" sample on the website was made this way too).

And I'll add aftertouch in the next update.

I like the sound, I like the GUI, I like the effects, but it's not enough to tempt me from, for example, Tassman's analog synths. There's simply not enough sound shaping options for deeper sound design. Have I missed them ? Are they there ?

Try messing around with the modulation panel with the ADSRs and LFOs. You can also control one LFO by the other for example. It's not a modular synth like Tassman, but a modular synth will never be able to generate so much waveforms at such low CPU usage.

[grymmjack]

I tried to help out by offering to do a bank of presets.. Figured I'd trade 128 or so presets for the synth, as he's only got a few dozen presets right now. I showed him synths that I've created banks for, and he asked me to download the demo and make some presets for him. So, 10 minutes later, I emailed him 6 presets for his synth, here's the PMs:


--------------------------------
Hi Steve,

Thanks for your reply. I checked the presets, but to me it seems like they have been generated by randomizing the controls.

We maintain high standards when it comes to presets, since they are the "face" of a plugin. We are sometimes spending hours on a single preset ourselves to bring them to perfection.

I'm very sorry and I hope you'll understand.

Best regards,
Lennard
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Of course I used a randomizer, how else would I send 6 presets within 5 minutes?

Randomizers aren't evil, they'll find you a good starting point and then you tweak them until you find a good sound. If you want to compete in the softsynth market, you'll need lots of presets. If you look around, the best selling synths give you 500+ presets, and then sell additional presets on the side. You've got a good sounding synth, but you're going to want to have a good 512 stock presets on there, and you probably want them in there quick... now that the readers of KVR are checking the synth out.

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No response after that. Hey, I offered my help, for free. I wouldn't buy a $200 synth, especially with that small amount of presets. Even though I like to tweak my own sounds, I still like scrolling through for a good starting point. If you're spending hours on a single preset, you're in the wrong business. I probably could have come up with my own presets without a randomizer, but I've got my new controller on order and mousing around on the screen is tedius when you're starting from scratch. I did my half my bank on SH-1001 with just a mouse and cramped up my hand.

if you call 'randomzing' presets helping, especially someone as arrogant as lennardigital is thus far... ?

btw, the # of presets mean jack shit if they are all crap. it's quality over quantity that should be the mindset of a preset desiginer.

i dont blame the guy for denying the random stuff.

i agree with you about having some good showcase presets though.