Why is Sonar still treated like the underdog?

[phibeck]

Just lately I am getting a bit fed up of Sonar again (Sonar 7) - you never know what level its going to export audio at (apart from it'll be less than the track you're exporting). A known problem, that everybody has, that dosn't get fixed from the one update to the next.

Er...known by whom? I have never run into this.

Well thats great! Here is what I do:

I mixBounce everything down to one track. Put it in solo mode and play it just to make sure everything is OK, and to check the level on the mains. I make sure that the peaks are just at the end of the green, before the red.

I then select the track and go to File - export - audio.

The resulting wav file is always at a less level than it was in Sonar - sometimes dramatically so. No matter how I check my levels before exporting, the resulting wav file is a an unpredicatable level (but always less).

I have seen this mentioned elsewhere, and my pal (who introduced me to Sonar) has this problem to.

If you have any ideas - it would be great to hear them !

[DHR53]

This thread should be required reading for anyone who wants to join the "KVR community."

[phibeck]

This thread should be required reading for anyone who wants to join the "KVR community."

Sorry - I was looking for the "Hardware vs Plugins" thread and got distracted ..

[neverfall]

Klemperer: I use it, but I only found out about it via KVR of all places. In the United Kingdom, Cakewalk really don't have a visible presence. Certainly, I don't recall ever going into somewhere like SoundControl on the highstreet and seeing SONAR there. It was mostly Steinberg and has stayed pretty much the same. I did, however, see a copy of Home Studio in the local PC World, so perhaps the bakers are making inroads. Anyway, the only people over here I've spoken to who know who Cakewalk are tend to be American students I've spoken to.

Those students might be the only Cakewalk supporters you'll ever run into. I've met them in schools where only Pro Tools, Logic, and Live were stationed throughout campus facilities. I've met them at radio stations where only pro Tools and Audition were used. I've never met any at a recording studio in Connecticut using only Pro Tools and Logic. I used to be one of them myself...



The underdogs are fighting mad because they're not a part of the standard.

Sorta like those threads when members tried ever so desperately to get others to feel that Reaper was every bit as good as Sonar and Cubase. It wasn't so much about being "as good". It was more about being "as respected".

That's why these piss poor chaps will use whatever excuse they can conjure to tell you APIs aren't as great as the pros make them out to be. Ask these same chaps how many Behringer products they've owned over the years.


Exactly. Now where's that "What's your favorite Daw" thread? Let's see those numbers...

[Arglebargle]

oh my f**king god.

[dgkenney]

This thread should be required reading for anyone who wants to join the "KVR community."

Sorry - I was looking for the "Hardware vs Plugins" thread and got distracted ..

It's right over there - next to the Mac vs: PC thread - you can't miss it.

Dan

[Alfalfa]

...could...not...resist...uncontrollable urge to...post on this thread...SOMEONE STOP ME! I....[HIT SUBMIT NOW!]...I'm losing control...ARGGH!

[Stupid American Pig]

USA NEVERFALL USA NEVERFALL!!!!!!!!

[Arglebargle]

Neverfall is totally sticking it to all the lame Bonar users.

[Klemperer]

Klemperer: I use it, but I only found out about it via KVR of all places. In the United Kingdom, Cakewalk really don't have a visible presence. Certainly, I don't recall ever going into somewhere like SoundControl on the highstreet and seeing SONAR there. It was mostly Steinberg and has stayed pretty much the same. I did, however, see a copy of Home Studio in the local PC World, so perhaps the bakers are making inroads. Anyway, the only people over here I've spoken to who know who Cakewalk are tend to be American students I've spoken to.

[EDIT - actually, I'm pretty sure there was a website that had Cakewalk listed as a company and showed their gross income figures. I'll see if I can find it again.]

thanks much, fandango! I got my "information" only from computermusic mag, and of course in Germany you find Cubase, Ableton live and Logic, but not so often Sonar in the big shops.

By the way, as it is mentioned here - my first host ever was Anvil studio . And guess what, I still use it...it is updated since at least 8 years, and as in early times I had a soundblaster card with sf2-support, Anvil was my perfect midi-file-player. I use the score editor in this small program. The developer is one of the most friendly people ever, by the way.

[Alfalfa]

To change the course of this thread slightly,

Good luck with that.

if you had infinite funds to buy a new DAW setup including any sample libraries etc, would you stay with your current PC or MAC? Would you stay with your current host?

From Cubase to Pro Tools? I never really decided. I assume I'll end up buying Pro Tools and have them both and let my mood of the day decide.

This question will test your true loyalty to what you currently use or own.

George Bush? Is that you?

Or you will jump ship based on "the grass is greener on the other side - but just as difficult to cut".

Grass is greener -- isn't that the main reason for switching?

I've just wasted the last six months moving from one DAW to the other only to return to the one I originally purchased. I could have been making music during this time rather than playing Mr. Engineer.

You didn't exactly waste the past six months. You were merely engaging in a lengthy test proving that your original hypothesis was indeed correct.

DAW Wars are engaged in for the sole purpose of avoiding real work on music, yet feeling all the while that you are "setting up your system" or some such thing.

They are kind of silly anymore. Sonar is a tool for Roland, Cubase a tool for Yamaha, Logic a tool for Apple, and now Studio One a tool for Presonus -- to sell their hardware, or to be value-added to their products where they make their real money. Perhaps the heyday for DAW Wars is behind us? They just don't have the passion they once held. It's all so corporate now.

[kp]

[quote="phibeck"]Well thats great! Here is what I do:

I mixBounce everything down to one track. Put it in solo mode and play it just to make sure everything is OK, and to check the level on the mains. I make sure that the peaks are just at the end of the green, before the red.

I then select the track and go to File - export - audio.

The resulting wav file is always at a less level than it was in Sonar - sometimes dramatically so. No matter how I check my levels before exporting, the resulting wav file is a an unpredicatable level (but always less).

I have seen this mentioned elsewhere, and my pal (who introduced me to Sonar) has this problem to.

If you have any ideas - it would be great to hear them !

[/quote]

First, since you can check the levels of your "master" bus anyway in SONAR, you shouldn't need to go through these 2 steps, just make sure nothing is selected in the Track View, do File->Export->Audio, select the master bus/main output you want to export and generate your wav.

Second, where is your new track (the one to solo) routed to? Is it encountering (or bypassing) any busses/FX that it should (or shouldn't!)? And are you finally exporting the track or the bus/output it's pointing to?

[kevvvvv]

phew ... just read all this thread.

That neverfall's an arse, isn't he.

No idea how to behave

[neverfall]

phew ... just read all this thread.

That neverfall's an arse, isn't he.

No idea how to behave

But check it out...


Your dumbass just wasted your time reading through 12 pages of shits and giggles to post what?

To

do

what?

Should I be surprised that you STILL use Sonar? How effeminate of you to throw a tampon fit over a Daw. Tell us something. Exactly on what page did you notice your mascara running down the side of your cheek? Maybe... you need to stop taking these Daw wars so personally. Maybe...you shouldn't be so quick to focus on what I'm saying and pay more attention to the actual thread topic at hand.

I don't know. Maybe it's just Maybelline Bitch.


Or Maybe you should switch to using Logic. Literally.

[Resonant- Serpent]

I started using Sonar because I wanted to get started, a friend had it, and could show the how to begin.

I stuck with it.

After a while I decided it would be "convenient" to be like everyone else, and use PT. But then I saw I would have to reinstall all my VST's as RTAS.

Just lately I am getting a bit fed up of Sonar again (Sonar 7) - you never know what level its going to export audio at (apart from it'll be less than the track you're exporting). A known problem, that everybody has, that dosn't get fixed from the one update to the next.

So I'm looking at Reaper - I liked the idea of having a complete DAW on a USB stick. However - it is just so irritating having to look up how to do everything, when I have everything at my fingertips in Sonar.

So I'll probably stick with Sonar - just because I know it well.

I guess that goes for most people and most DAWs.

Did you ever post on the official Sonar forum and ask for help about the differing levels?

I've been using Sonar sincer version 1, and I've never had a problem with export levels. As far as it be 'problem that everyone has that doesn't get fixed', where's your proof? There are people running studios, doing professional hollywood sound design for movies, and releasing albums regularly. If there was a problem with export levels, none of this would be possible.

Instead of spouting off about something you obviously know little about, I suggest you read up on the pan laws in Sonar, then take a course in audio engineering.

This link might help:

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~ltibbits ... n-laws.pdf -