The Internet: All the music in the world that nobody's buying…
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- KVRAF
- 16845 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
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- Banned
- 4072 posts since 7 Nov, 2007
ghettosynth wrote:distracts from the real problem of how to sell ones music given the constraints of where we are today.
By not trying to compete with all the clutter.
Look at this latest fiasco with any of these so called, "musicians." They all have their strings pulled by the machine behind their careers.
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- KVRist
- 272 posts since 15 May, 2006
From the Guardian: Sweden sees music sales soar after filesharing crackdown.
And some figures about EMI:
Maltby Capital Ltd Annual Review 2009
"As previously advised, Terra Firma has been in discussions with EMI's lender. Until these discussions have come to a conclusion, it is not appropriate to publish an Annual Review of Maltby Capital for the 2009 financial year.
As already announced, EMI Music (the recorded music division) delivered a strong operational turnaround with EBITDA increasing from £51 million to £163 million for the year ended 31 March 2009.
EMI Music Publishing, the leading publisher of popular music, continued to deliver strong performance with EBITDA increasing from £113 million to £135 million for the year ended 31 March 2009."
And some figures about EMI:
Maltby Capital Ltd Annual Review 2009
"As previously advised, Terra Firma has been in discussions with EMI's lender. Until these discussions have come to a conclusion, it is not appropriate to publish an Annual Review of Maltby Capital for the 2009 financial year.
As already announced, EMI Music (the recorded music division) delivered a strong operational turnaround with EBITDA increasing from £51 million to £163 million for the year ended 31 March 2009.
EMI Music Publishing, the leading publisher of popular music, continued to deliver strong performance with EBITDA increasing from £113 million to £135 million for the year ended 31 March 2009."
Read reviews of free netlabel/Creative Commons music at Catching The Waves, a most amateurish free music blog. @catchingthewave
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- KVRist
- 143 posts since 21 May, 2009 from Germany
*OMG*
Seems to become a hot topic here
I am not going to answer all of the comments, because it would take me too much time:D
But i want to contribute some points:
1) Blaming piracy for decreasing CD sales is based on a false logic:
Everybody who has downloaded Gigabytes of songs, would have bought it otherwise. That's obviously nonsense. People take the chance to get something for free (often) regardless whether it's legal or not.
2) What seems interesting to me is, that the number of CD sales decreases, but on the other hand, the number of ringtone-sales steadily increases.
3) My personal behaviour changed with the advent of the internet.
I have to admit, that i do not watch MTV (pars pro toto for a bazillion other Music TV-Stations) anymore. I do not listen to the traditional (music) radio-stations anymore (instead, i enjoy listening to news-stations without musical and or commercial "interuptions").
Most time of the day, i listen to music (on the other hand) via songbird i.e. streams (e.g. "Digitally Imported"). There are so many great stations out there, that i have no need for the traditional media. What forced the radical change was the focus of many of the traditional stations on the "hot rotation". That's annoying me.
So, for me, piracy is out of question, because there are enough other ways to satisfy my (musal) needs.
Instead of piracy (alone), changed customer behaviour should be taken into account for decreasing CD sales.
Seems to become a hot topic here
I am not going to answer all of the comments, because it would take me too much time:D
But i want to contribute some points:
1) Blaming piracy for decreasing CD sales is based on a false logic:
Everybody who has downloaded Gigabytes of songs, would have bought it otherwise. That's obviously nonsense. People take the chance to get something for free (often) regardless whether it's legal or not.
2) What seems interesting to me is, that the number of CD sales decreases, but on the other hand, the number of ringtone-sales steadily increases.
3) My personal behaviour changed with the advent of the internet.
I have to admit, that i do not watch MTV (pars pro toto for a bazillion other Music TV-Stations) anymore. I do not listen to the traditional (music) radio-stations anymore (instead, i enjoy listening to news-stations without musical and or commercial "interuptions").
Most time of the day, i listen to music (on the other hand) via songbird i.e. streams (e.g. "Digitally Imported"). There are so many great stations out there, that i have no need for the traditional media. What forced the radical change was the focus of many of the traditional stations on the "hot rotation". That's annoying me.
So, for me, piracy is out of question, because there are enough other ways to satisfy my (musal) needs.
Instead of piracy (alone), changed customer behaviour should be taken into account for decreasing CD sales.
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- KVRian
- 1492 posts since 29 Apr, 2004
my hope is that this 'machine' is dying. not the dedicated musician.ckatrun411 wrote: Look at this latest fiasco with any of these so called, "musicians." They all have their strings pulled by the machine behind their careers.
u can still make a good living as musician, i guess.
but u gotta merge all the skills that are seperated in industrial thinking.
u gotta be a composer, performer, engineer, marketing guy, manager.
i think this is very obvious if u look at a - what i feel - new requirement of being technically talented (aphex twin, deadmaus, and now little boots). also u gotta merge music services (film-music, dj-ing, mastering ..) and making ur own stuff.
i am well aware of the matter that its quality-wise better to follow one single route. but to make a living out of a single route, u gotta belong to the top 100 worldwide nowadays.. it might be well worth trying to be the best composer/performer/etc.
most important, imho: stay away from institutions that urge u to specialize. for example casting shows: they urge u to concentrate on improving tv-effective performance. they dont really train singing skills, they dont train at all composing skills. they urge u to be somebody that is dependant from them.
one may ask, if the music business itself is dying - or if the industrial music production machine is going down.
in one aspect this already happened. music reproduction and distribution can be done by everybody.
actually reproduction was possible and was done since the tape recorder in the 80ies. there were just no big worries cause one could not distribute tape copies effectively.
i know, some may say, hey its illegal!
sure. and at the same time its not 'illegal' the banking guys (especially in the US) get this year the highest salaries ever. reason: we'll adapt but it needs time. did all the millions of fired workers worldwide have time to adapt? i am not an anarchist but its hard to believe justice and law fit together well if u look at such 'legal criminals'.
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- KVRAF
- 11839 posts since 23 Nov, 2004 from west of east
I think the real trigger for increased revenues is the record companies finally grasping the message that easy access to sites selling downloads without DRM will result in sales increases. It's that simple. They won't be able to sell a lot of albums full of filler, but they will for artists whose albums are consistently good from first to last track.Hitch wrote:From the Guardian: Sweden sees music sales soar after filesharing crackdown.
And some figures about EMI:
We escape the trap of our own subjectivity by
perceiving neither black nor white but shades of grey
perceiving neither black nor white but shades of grey
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- KVRAF
- 11839 posts since 23 Nov, 2004 from west of east
It's so ironic that the music industry spent well over a decade trying to control illegal downloading while not aggressively creating online stores to sell their music to their customers. The amount of potential revenue lost during that time would be difficult to calculate, but it would have to be significant. They loved selling overpriced CDs too much for too long.
Here is one source of how much.
Here is one source of how much.
We escape the trap of our own subjectivity by
perceiving neither black nor white but shades of grey
perceiving neither black nor white but shades of grey
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- KVRAF
- 2540 posts since 18 May, 2002 from up on Cripple Creek (CO)
While it's true that not everyone who downloads GB's of illegal music would have bought it otherwise, is it not possible that they would have bought at least some of it if the free download wasn't an option? I think it's also nonsense to say it hasn't had any effect on sales.lilith2k3 wrote:1) Blaming piracy for decreasing CD sales is based on a false logic:
Everybody who has downloaded Gigabytes of songs, would have bought it otherwise. That's obviously nonsense. People take the chance to get something for free (often) regardless whether it's legal or not.
I know quite a few people who used to buy cd's before downloading was an option. Now none of them ever pays for music. It's not purely a case of changing economic priorities either, as most of them still aren't married or anything, and still spend money on other non-essential items.
Piracy may not be the only reason for decreased sales, but I'm sure it doesn't help.
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- KVRAF
- 6596 posts since 21 Jun, 2004 from Secret Underground Hideout
+1synthgeek wrote:Piracy may not be the only reason for decreased sales, but I'm sure it doesn't help
i'm amazed by the # of people who pirate. apparently some have been fined through a sting
"Most people who experiment with drugs are not lying in the streets, suffocating on their own vomit. If you want to see some of that, go to the Pub on Saturday night at closing time." ozwest
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- KVRAF
- 5524 posts since 5 May, 2007 from Mars Colony
Bob Olhsson, who is an audio engineer who worked at Motown, and who has also managed, and who is someone who has closely followed trends in the music industry for several decades, said this:
"There was only a brief period where you could compare apples to apples, i.e. neighborhoods having broadband P2P available with neighborhoods that didn't. The drop in sales where it was available and where the demographics were comparable was just plain colossal. The number of weeks before a new hit CD's sales fell changed from tapering off over six or eight weeks to falling off a cliff after just one week in the neighborhoods where Napster was available."
"There was only a brief period where you could compare apples to apples, i.e. neighborhoods having broadband P2P available with neighborhoods that didn't. The drop in sales where it was available and where the demographics were comparable was just plain colossal. The number of weeks before a new hit CD's sales fell changed from tapering off over six or eight weeks to falling off a cliff after just one week in the neighborhoods where Napster was available."
"You don’t expect much beyond a gaping, misspelled void when you stare into the cold dark place that is Internet comments."
---Salon on internet trolls attacking Cleveland kidnapping victim Amanda Berry
---Salon on internet trolls attacking Cleveland kidnapping victim Amanda Berry
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- KVRAF
- 5524 posts since 5 May, 2007 from Mars Colony
One thing to consider when looking at sources of data and analysis on this subject is the simple fact that there are ulterior motives lurking around behind the scenes that could be influencing some of these studies.
For one, ISP's have a strong vested interest in deflecting any compelling sense that file sharing networks have a real and serious economic impact. Leaving aside any speculation that they actively want file sharing to continue so that the huge amount of free-content traffic on their networks doesn't subside, there's the simple fact that they most likely don't want to have the government looming over them expecting them to handle the difficult task of trying to police these activities or, worse yet (for them) holding them legally liable for the massive amount of copyright infringement that goes on within these networks.
For one, ISP's have a strong vested interest in deflecting any compelling sense that file sharing networks have a real and serious economic impact. Leaving aside any speculation that they actively want file sharing to continue so that the huge amount of free-content traffic on their networks doesn't subside, there's the simple fact that they most likely don't want to have the government looming over them expecting them to handle the difficult task of trying to police these activities or, worse yet (for them) holding them legally liable for the massive amount of copyright infringement that goes on within these networks.
"You don’t expect much beyond a gaping, misspelled void when you stare into the cold dark place that is Internet comments."
---Salon on internet trolls attacking Cleveland kidnapping victim Amanda Berry
---Salon on internet trolls attacking Cleveland kidnapping victim Amanda Berry
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- KVRist
- 397 posts since 8 Aug, 2004 from Munich, Germany
Well, times seem to change and the change does not care if it is due to file sharing piracy or not. It changes.
However, this is not the first time. How could musicians cope with the situation when their sponsors (nobility, clergy) were reduced in 18th century? How to react as an orchestra composer when there are less orchestras (due to that reduction)? Maybe write more chamber music! And: Sell sheet music (string quartets, etc.) to broad masses instead of being sponsored by a few. What to do when radio was invented? (Try to be played in radio!) How to act when noone cares too much for intellectual rights of composers (fond something like the german GEMA, like Richard Strauss did). What can you do as a conductor when every canonical work has already been published on LP/CD several hundred times? Maybe record renaissance music or do something drastically new with ole Beethoven (as e.g. Gardiner and Norrington did quite successfully).
I really don't care if or if not piracy is the evil cause. This discussion is a waste of time. I care how I can make music these days. Maybe doing music in spare time (which has never ever in history been as extensive as today!) is a good way. This will create a different music than say 17th centuries conditions for composers. Of course. And quite good so.
Cheers,
Andreas
However, this is not the first time. How could musicians cope with the situation when their sponsors (nobility, clergy) were reduced in 18th century? How to react as an orchestra composer when there are less orchestras (due to that reduction)? Maybe write more chamber music! And: Sell sheet music (string quartets, etc.) to broad masses instead of being sponsored by a few. What to do when radio was invented? (Try to be played in radio!) How to act when noone cares too much for intellectual rights of composers (fond something like the german GEMA, like Richard Strauss did). What can you do as a conductor when every canonical work has already been published on LP/CD several hundred times? Maybe record renaissance music or do something drastically new with ole Beethoven (as e.g. Gardiner and Norrington did quite successfully).
I really don't care if or if not piracy is the evil cause. This discussion is a waste of time. I care how I can make music these days. Maybe doing music in spare time (which has never ever in history been as extensive as today!) is a good way. This will create a different music than say 17th centuries conditions for composers. Of course. And quite good so.
Cheers,
Andreas
More music: http://blog.andreaskrebs.de
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1050 posts since 4 Nov, 2003 from Washington DC
In case some of you are wondering what the fuss is all about, it was this blog post that started it: http://phatsobrown.wordpress.com/2009/1 ... ys-buying/
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- KVRian
- 838 posts since 7 Jul, 2008 from Lost in the wilderness
Yeah, there's too much music, too much presets, too much samples, too much VSTis!!!...dj ray wrote:In case some of you are wondering what the fuss is all about, it was this blog post that started it: http://phatsobrown.wordpress.com/2009/1 ... ys-buying/
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- KVRian
- 1492 posts since 29 Apr, 2004
all the crying about piracy is negotioating the main cause, imho.Axis1~SL61 wrote:Yeah, there's too much music, too much presets, too much samples, too much VSTis!!!...dj ray wrote:In case some of you are wondering what the fuss is all about, it was this blog post that started it: http://phatsobrown.wordpress.com/2009/1 ... ys-buying/
what would happen if music downloads were stopped?
- prices of physical albums cant be matched, ever. selling 10 records for 0.1$ is equal to selling 1 physical record for 10$.
- still we'd have a global market where u can always find somebody who does the same quality for free. and u will also always find somebody that preselects from the mass of records and distributes it for free. especially the latter changed with the internet. publishing charts on tv/magazines (as a selection aid) and making records available in stores was the only (expensive) way before the 90ies.
- strict prosecution of music pirates would be very expensive for the gov. taking people to court is costly. it would never meet the incomes that are made with download sales. an economic desaster.
so, whats the consequence if the offer is too big?
put in economical words:
- firstly, it lowers prices in a way only the top 100 (or top 10'000, i dont know) do well.
- secondly, its not the 'best' that do well cause the market is not transparent for the customer. nobody can listen to all music on beatport and sort out the 'best'.
- thirdly, there would be a demand for professional selection. but this needs thrustworthy selectors. and likely, for music, the most thrustworthy are people that do selection and distribution for free - the p2p networks. cause its about music, and not about business.
of course this is childish. business isnt a bad thing. u need business to do something professional and to sustain a high quality. a p2p kid cant replace a professional music reviewer.
problem only is, that the industry has the same level like a p2p kid. phrases like 'buy britney spears!', 'because she is cute!', u'll find equally in tv-spots and in p2p networks.
the industry has come down to a niveau in music production and marketing that was meant to target everybody. but suddenly production and distribution technology has come to everybody too.
and now they are wondering why people dont need them anymore - blaming them to be criminals? as if the music industry wasn't a place for 'legal criminals'...
my feeling: keep it high quality. there will be a reward, sooner or later.