KVR Audio

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:52 pm

headquest wrote:
Not "solely" in my case, no. I used it via rewire, which in those days made perfect sense (these days I really don't think it does!). But the stability of Reason, its low CPU, and the quality of its devices next to VST alternatives made it compelling for me ... at that time.

Oki. Makes sense. But "solely" was the original question.

Do not know about your experiences with Reason crashes are but I have not encountered any yet. However, I bought it in 2012. Has not used it for more than a half year until a a few days ago, where I have fired it up again, and I do not use many REs and only few audio tracks beside the original modules.
However my idea of what a "crash" really is may differ too. A decade ago I would expect any computer to crash once in a while with any program solely due to fact that it was a computer. I really did not know what DAW crashes were until I bought Sonar 5 and tried to use it until Sonar 8.5, where I abandoned it. Now THAT is a DAW that crashes. If a program could have just 50% less crashes, I think they would "work" in my view, so in this respect Reason seems to be a dream, even with the (few) crash reports I have heard of so far. As far as Reason concerns people can at least differ in views about it's stability. That would be impossible with Sonar.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:09 pm

headquest wrote: I reckon it would still be at the top of the pile in that respect if they had focussed on adding better synths, samplers, etc and stuck to their original vision.

Wait a moment. Say you choose to use Reason with no REs and no audiotracks and you do not use the mixer for anything else than a general output, wouldn't it be like using the original version or is your claim that these recent addition will effects it's CPU use and stability even when unused?

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:11 pm

IncarnateX wrote: Do not know about your experiences with Reason crashes are but I have not encountered any yet. However, I bought it in 2012. Has not used it for more than a half year until a a few days ago, where I have fired it up again, and I do not use many REs and only few audio tracks beside the original modules.
However my idea of what a "crash" really is may differ too. A decade ago I would expect any computer to crash once in a while with any program solely due to fact that it was a computer. I really did not know what DAW crashes were until I bought Sonar 5 and tried to use it until Sonar 8.5, where I abandoned it. Now THAT is a DAW that crashes. If a program could have just 50% less crashes, I think they would "work" in my view, so in this respect Reason seems to be a dream, even with the (few) crash reports I have heard of so far. As far as Reason concerns people can at least differ in views about it's stability. That would be impossible with Sonar.

Totally understand (at least I think!) - I had Sonar 5PE and used it for several months. A most frustrating time for me in terms of music production - so many quirks, bugs, and such a messy interface. I would never go back, even though on paper the package they offer appears so fantastic in terms of VFM.

I don't think all DAWs have equal stability, and in my experience Sonar was probably the most buggy I have tried. Cubase (which I switched to after Sonar) felt considerably more solid by comparison. But all the while I was still enjoying Ableton and Reason on the side... in the end as Ableton grew into a more full fledged DAW it proved to be the one that gave me the best balance of features, workflow and stability when I'm composing.

That said, quite a bit of what I get up to more recently involves being in a studio where an engineer (using Pro Tools) does all the tech stuff and I can concentrate on playing the piano. Feel very at home being able to concentrate just on the music like that, and have become slightly weary of the tech side. But... seasons of life!

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:16 pm

IncarnateX wrote:
headquest wrote: I reckon it would still be at the top of the pile in that respect if they had focussed on adding better synths, samplers, etc and stuck to their original vision.
Wait a moment. Say you choose to use Reason with no REs and no audiotracks and you do not use the mixer for anything else than a general output, wouldn't it be like using the original version or is your claim that these recent addition will effects it's CPU use and stability even when unused?

Yes and no. I think that the CPU is increased a little, but certainly not a deal breaker. For me the problem was basically driver conflicts caused by the dongle, RAM allocation, lack of crash recovery (which led to time consuming re installation of the whole programme three times), and all made worse by snotty customer support (they used to be brilliant in the past, so that was a shock).

I had a blast with Reason back in the day, but there did eventually come a point where it made more sense just to remove it from use in projects and switch to VST within my main DAW. For all Reason's attractive benefits, it became a hassle because of the stability problem I was having. And to be honest ... I haven't looked back.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:29 pm

headquest wrote: For me the problem was basically driver conflicts caused by the dongle

Dongle is no longer a problem in Reason 7 afaik because you can have the access from your harddrive.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:36 pm

IncarnateX wrote:
headquest wrote: For me the problem was basically driver conflicts caused by the dongle
Dongle is no longer a problem in Reason 7 afaik because you can have the access from your harddrive.

Thanks - good to know that for future reference and when giving advice. A pity they didn't get this right in the first place, or my own Reason experience might not have ended badly, if at all.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:41 pm

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IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:56 pm

TheoM wrote: No, an Re should be able to be used like any other plugin and used everywhere as often as one needs on a modern machine (particularly the bread and butter effects).

The ssl EQ is not bad, but the trident kicks it's ass and i'd rather use that everywhere instead of the SSL. Fact, on any DAW besides reason possible. Reason, impossible.

I can give lots and lots of other examples if you'd like.

The FSB sounds crap, it really does, as do most of the FSB refills out there, with the exception of bitley, xsynth, exode, and vengeance.

I certainly know your take on this Theo, no need to explain. But you also know that the REs ain't that much of a widespread problem to Reason users and that it is close to no problem at all to Reason Fans. And the quality of Refills is a matter of personal taste and cannot be put on universal formula either. And yes, of course i was joking in the first place. My statement was a metaphor for my love for Reason , nothing else

Lunesis · Post by **Lunesis** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:04 pm

TheoM wrote:
IncarnateX wrote:
mr44khz wrote:Dang, I never thought i'd see a dude who eats more PH and Reason cheese than enochlight congrats!
Given the title of the thread, I really hope it isn't a surprise to you that I take this as a compliment. Reason cheese is the best in the world. If you want to insult me, you couldn't be more misguided.

TheoM wrote:Are you joking? And regarding the RE thing, please. Please show me a video of a 32 track project using any. Re of your choice, just one per channel, and show me that your dsp still had overhead left. Real world scenario.
Come on Theo, Mate. If this really is a problem, just use some of the onboard modules instead. The alternatives are plenty (such as combinators or Refills). REs are just additional gadgets, they are and will never be significant limitations to Reason.

And even if there are small issues here and there, you have to compare these minor issues to the major advantages gained such as the modular environment in general and it's endless possibilities.

And in time, the issues will be fixed anyway. Reason fans need something to look forward to like everybody else even if there are only insignificant problems yet to be resolved.
No, an Re should be able to be used like any other plugin and used everywhere as often as one needs on a modern machine (particularly the bread and butter effects).

The ssl EQ is not bad, but the trident kicks it's ass and i'd rather use that everywhere instead of the SSL. Fact, on any DAW besides reason possible. Reason, impossible.

I can give lots and lots of other examples if you'd like.

The FSB sounds crap, it really does, as do most of the FSB refills out there, with the exception of bitley, xsynth, exode, and vengeance.

I have to say I think http://tompritchardsounddesign.com/ sounds like the cream of the crop when it comes to utilizing stock devices. He's the only person who's refills I've actually bought, and I've bought all of them.

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:10 pm

I don't have any idea why this frame bait thread haven't split/locked yet. But personaly I like how Kvr is getting freedom of talking.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:11 pm

Theo, you do know what "fanboy's thread" means don't you?

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:23 pm

Lunesis wrote: I have to say I think http://tompritchardsounddesign.com/ sounds like the cream of the crop when it comes to utilizing stock devices. He's the only person who's refills I've actually bought, and I've bought all of them.

I only own two refills but these I actually find kind of innovative in the way they take advantage of NN-XT and combinator technology.

One is Proton3, a sample based synth that integrates two hardware "modeled" chorus effects into Reason: The Roland Dimension-D and Boss CE-1. The secret is that the waveforms are sampled both dry and chorused and you can switch between them on the fly. Waveforms are from various analog sources and controlled from the NN-XT sampler.

The other Refill is B.E.A.S.T. Here some classical analog waveforms with filter movements are played from the NN19 and through Thor's filters. However you can shut off Thor's filters and instead use a didicated combinator knob that controls the sample start point and loop point on the NN-19. Since the waveforms are recorded with original filter movement, it sounds like you sweep the original filters when you move the start/loop point. Have never hard any "software filter" sound like that! Great idea.

Cheers

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:33 pm

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ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:34 pm

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Reason101 · Post by **Reason101** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:43 pm

IncarnateX wrote:
Lunesis wrote:
The other Refill is B.E.A.S.T. Here some classical analog waveforms with filter movements are played from the NN19 and through Thor's filters. However you can shut off Thor's filters and instead use a didicated combinator knob that controls the sample start point and loop point on the NN-19. Since the waveforms are recorded with original filter movement, it sounds like you sweep the original filters when you move the start/loop point. Have never hard any "software filter" sound like that! Great idea.

Cheers

Is it kind of like this:

http://www.reason101.net/101-creative-r ... n-sampler/

?

Reason fanboy's thread