Abbey Road/Waves REDD Console Channel Strip

[TreyM]

In my experience, when we need to go over -10dB RMS to achieve a commercial loudness it means we didn't mix the song properly. -10dB RMS is definitely loud enough, even for electronic music. There are songs with RMS around -8dB, even -6dB... yes, there are, but they all sound really bad, it doesn't matter if you mixed them and you think they are awesome (or your clients), they sound bad, period.

it all depends WHERE people are listenig to their music...and its a question if most of the time are people listening music in ideal enviroment...

listening music mastered at -12dB RMS in noisy enviroment is THE SAME NONSENSE as listening -6dB RMS music at deadly quiet listening room

sometimes I wish to have even louder music especially on my mp3 when Im travelling somewhere,becouse another solution - using enclosed headphones - could be very dangerous...

sorry for OT

The listening environment has nothing to do with K12 vs K6... There are whole limiting and compression artifacts to consider. No... K6 does not sound like K12 no matter where you are. And besides, if you want your music loud enough to hear it in such an environment because enclosed cans would be dangerous, well, K6+ would be just as dangerous for the same reason...

[kylen]

@TreyM - Just guessing but I'm thinking most folks over here don't refer to the entire K-System (dbSPL & dbm) when mentioning K-16, etc. I think we generally are just referring to dbm 'rms-type' levels in the box. K-slang maybe but still a reference. Sorry again for the OT...

[TreyM]

@TreyM - Just guessing but I'm thinking most folks over here don't refer to the entire K-System (dbSPL & dbm) when mentioning K-16, etc. I think we generally are just referring to dbm 'rms-type' levels in the box. K-slang maybe but still a reference. Sorry again for the OT...

K6 = -6dbFS RMS... what's the deal?

[kvaca]

The listening environment has nothing to do with K12 vs K6... There are whole limiting and compression artifacts to consider.

have you ever heard about masking?
or do you thing that these artifacts are louder than town traffic?

but dont get me wrong- I always prefer more dynamic music and this is the only exception

[kylen]

K6 = -6dbFS RMS... what's the deal?

I was suggesting that K6 at 80dbSPL wouldn't be any more dangerous than K14 at an 80dbSPL listening level.

[TreyM]

The listening environment has nothing to do with K12 vs K6... There are whole limiting and compression artifacts to consider.

have you ever heard about masking?
or do you thing that these artifacts are louder than town traffic?

but dont get me wrong- I always prefer more dynamic music and this is the only exception

I have no idea about your ears, but mine can pretty distinctly tell hyper slammed trash from nice dynamic music regardless of the surrounding environment. Masking has nothing to do with smashed weak transients...

[TreyM]

K6 = -6dbFS RMS... what's the deal?

I was suggesting that K6 at 80dbSPL wouldn't be any more dangerous than K14 at an 80dbSPL listening level.

It would if the sole reason the guy wants it -6 RMS is to be louder (definitely louder than 80dbSPL) than the crap around him. In that case, he still can't hear his surroundings, cans or not...

[kvaca]

The listening environment has nothing to do with K12 vs K6... There are whole limiting and compression artifacts to consider.

have you ever heard about masking?
or do you thing that these artifacts are louder than town traffic?

but dont get me wrong- I always prefer more dynamic music and this is the only exception

I have no idea about your ears, but mine can pretty distinctly tell hyper slammed trash from nice dynamic music regardless of the surrounding environment. Masking has nothing to do with smashed weak transients...

as I have told you I like dynamic music, but nice dynamic music is completely useless in that case,becouse frequently you hear nothing more than strong unsmashed transients plus enviromental noise which is masking the rest of music

and please stop bothering with OT,this thread is not about loudness and this is my last response to you concerning this phenomena, because we both are obviously talking about two very different things...

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

The listening environment has nothing to do with K12 vs K6... There are whole limiting and compression artifacts to consider.

have you ever heard about masking?
or do you thing that these artifacts are louder than town traffic?

but dont get me wrong- I always prefer more dynamic music and this is the only exception

I have no idea about your ears, but mine can pretty distinctly tell hyper slammed trash from nice dynamic music regardless of the surrounding environment. Masking has nothing to do with smashed weak transients...

as I have told you I like dynamic music, but nice dynamic music is completely useless in that case,becouse frequently you hear nothing more than strong unsmashed transients plus enviromental noise which is masking the rest of music

and please stop bothering with OT,this thread is not about loudness and this is my last response to you concerning this phenomena, because we both are obviously talking about two very different things...

That's not the case. An 80db average volume is an 80db average. One track at 80db that's slammed to death, and another at 80db that isn't will block at just as much ambient noise because they're playing back equal in volume. We're talking average volume on playback here right? The difference then becomes in how loud the user needs to turn up their amp/receiver/ipod/volume knob to get to that 80db average.

So think of it this way, whether I'm listening to rock, classical, rap, pop, etc., it's all the same volume if they're all averaging 80db on playback. The difference in compression levels would be how loud ABOVE the 80db average the transients are. On a compressed mix, everything will sound 80db with nothing really popping out above. It's a more even volume, but it's smaller/quieter, than the less compressed song that's averaging 80db on playback where you have transients peaking at 86db or more. So even though the average volume of both songs is the same on playback, the less compressed mix will have punchier/louder transients. The only difference is that in the less compressed mix, the users will need to turn the speakers/headphones up louder to get to an 80db average.

Sorry to jump in there...but dynamic music is more dynamic, not necessarily quieter music. The volume on playback is up to the user to decide. That's the problem with smashing a mix IMO: the choice has been taken away. Would better speakers/headphones and amps in cars/ipods/phones, help alleviate this problem: probably.

[Compyfox]

I highly advice you to follow this particular thread:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5193847


Let's get back to discussing the REDD console channel strip, please.

Surely I'm not the only one that took a closer look. Where are the comments from those people?

[J4R1O]

Let's get back to discussing the REDD console channel strip, please.

Surely I'm not the only one that took a closer look. Where are the comments from those people?

After 12 pages of useful information and 3 day test drive with REDD trial version I finally decided to buy it.

REDD.17 adds nice bottom and roundness to Amplitube'd bass tracks (recorded line-in) and I even use REDD.37-.51 with Superior Drummer's Custom & Vintage SDX packs drum samples (REDD + T-RackS Vintage Compressor model 670 and EQP-1A + Kramer Master Tape = really nice drum sound). It also works perfectly with my friend's JimMorrisonish vocal tracks (recorded with AEA R84 ribbon mic).

Overall I'm really happy with REDD and I recommend it for everyone who wants to add some extra "vintage" color to their tracks.


P.S. My first post here. Sorry for my crappy english.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

I've been away and missed all the fun
Will grab those files compyfox and give them all a listen, Good on you for doing them and starting a dedicated metering information thread

All the best to all as always

Dean

[Compyfox]

Welcome to the boards.

Overall I'm really happy with REDD and I recommend it for everyone who wants to add some extra "vintage" color to their tracks.

It's surprisingly easy to dial in certain tones in terms of drums. Especially in the so called "punch" section, and around the particular harmonics.

I like the EQ or that particular purpose.

[J4R1O]

Welcome to the boards.

Thanks!

It's surprisingly easy to dial in certain tones in terms of drums. Especially in the so called "punch" section, and around the particular harmonics.

I like the EQ or that particular purpose.

Had to admit that I was a little bit skeptical at first using REDD with Superior Drummer's Custom & Vintage-samples that were already recorded using an EMI TG Desk (Abbey Road's next generation?) but for my surprise kick drum got more nice warmth and my whole kit sounded even better.

REDD.17 is my favourite. It's simply amazing.

[Compyfox]

The TG console was built by EMI. Even though they already provided certain equipment for Abbey Road before, this console was built from scratch and "in house" (meaning at EMI). The TG is a complete different concept, but is indeed more updated in terms of filters (3 band now).


The .17 does have the same frequency lift like the .37/.51, but it's only lowshelf and highshelf. With the pop modules of the .37/.51 console you have Lowshelf, Bell EQ on treble boost, and highshelf on treble attenuation. There is more interaction with the filters in this case.

This is why I was saying it's simpler to dial in a certain tone.