KVR Audio

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Fri May 03, 2013 8:55 pm

If I understand it right, Justin Frankel wants to have an INDEPENDENT plugin format (not controlled by Steinberg-Yamaha), that's why he doesn't want to support VST 3...

OTOH, VST was always more independent than RTAS...

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Fri May 03, 2013 8:59 pm

EvilDragon wrote:The only real "need" for VST 3 is per note modulation that's used by piano roll mockup composers. And that's not the majority of population which uses DAWs.

Sidechaining and all the other "goodies" are all possible in VST2.4 in one way or another...

That may be true, dunno (as for majority of users). But then, isn't having the ability to compose in piano roll part of a DAW? As far as I know all the DAWs I have seen and used have piano roll.

The point being, it is progressive technology and it will have a use IF it becomes supported by the devs.

I propose support the devs to support users of DAWs.

Happy musiking!
dsan

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:09 pm

In theory, you are completely correct, but I believe (though I don't know all the dirty little details) that steiny has something to do with why vst3 hasn't caught on as strongly as was once hoped.

ULAS · Post by **ULAS** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:10 pm

I have PT10 ,just for clients. Never touch it. I'm scoring to TV commercials everyday and I have to work very very fast. And Reaper makes me ULTRA fast. It's my secret weapon. I've been DP and Logic user for a long time. They are both great softwares too. But their almost all implementations are built on old codes so i have to spend more time to finish my work. I can not say anything about other purposes but for my work, Reaper is 10/10 software. I would pay ten times for it...

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:20 pm

hibidy wrote: I don't think I have any other vst3 plugs that I have.

I'm confused.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:23 pm

haha, well, er, um.........hmmmmmmmmmmm..........um

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:33 pm

dsan@mail.com wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:The only real "need" for VST 3 is per note modulation that's used by piano roll mockup composers. And that's not the majority of population which uses DAWs.

Sidechaining and all the other "goodies" are all possible in VST2.4 in one way or another...
That may be true, dunno (as for majority of users). But then, isn't having the ability to compose in piano roll part of a DAW? As far as I know all the DAWs I have seen and used have piano roll.

I don't know about you, but I don't necessarily use piano roll for composing, just for eventual fixes after the fact. I can play my parts in. I guess I'm in minority?

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:42 pm

EvilDragon wrote:The only real "need" for VST 3 is per note modulation that's used by piano roll mockup composers. And that's not the majority of population which uses DAWs.

in fact, obtaining more than one MIDI port is a feature of VST3 only. So every person using Vienna Ensemble Pro that feels the need for more than one port - up to 48 ports - is going to use the VST3 version or, in the case of the host that cannot use that, an inelegant, and afaict less robust performing workaround.

I don't acknowlege the necessity of 'mockup' as a qualifier for 'piano roll composers'. there are people that do not rely on an orchestra providing content wholly ITB today, in TV particularly. /VST3 is exotic and out of the mainstream of DAW users/ or something, POV. /KVR is the whole world/ type of thing. EDIT: this the second time someone has decided what is 'needed/necessary' as though for all, out of a narrow POV. But of course Producers rule ok. 'Composers' are queer little ducks the world has little use for, granted.

I know probably no more than hibs on the details of Steinberg discouraging development of VST3 third-party, but the lack of it in the hosts that are created by 'other than Steinberg' is a factor for me as a composer reliant on virtual ensembles, just out of the MIDI ports implementation. The workaround for Logic ['Event Input'] is a nightmare and afaict Logic users were the prime driver for the workaround. + there are REAPER users that want the extra ports.

The big factor that would push me to buy Cubase 6.5 is note expression...

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Fri May 03, 2013 9:47 pm

ULAS wrote: I've been DP and Logic user for a long time. They are both great softwares too. But their almost all implementations are built on old codes so i have to spend more time to finish my work.

Here we go with the "old code" argument again.

Have you seen the code? Can you DEFINE "old code"? I swear, people say this all the time and they really don't have a clue what the code actually is, or when it was written.

I mean, point to the workflow being unrefined or different or "unevolved". But for goodness sake, can we please stop with this old code nonsense?

FWIW, "old code" can be more efficient than "new code". It has nothing to do with when it was written.

Brent

Hink · Post by **Hink** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:05 pm

koolkeys wrote: Can you DEFINE "old code"?

- .... .. ... / .. ... / --- .-.. -.. / -.-. --- -.. .

CTStump · Post by **CTStump** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:05 pm

koolkeys wrote:
ULAS wrote: FWIW, "old code" can be more efficient than "new code". It has nothing to do with when it was written.

Brent

Totally agree, that's why I'm stuck at Sonar 8.5.3 and I don't regret it.

I'll be waiting for the X2 user's to invade this Reaper thread to convince me otherwise.

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:08 pm

Hink wrote:
koolkeys wrote: Can you DEFINE "old code"?
- .... .. ... / .. ... / --- .-.. -.. / -.-. --- -.. .

Ahhh, well I didn't know that Logic and DP were written in morse code.

See, if I would have known that.......

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:16 pm

EvilDragon wrote: I don't know about you, but I don't necessarily use piano roll for composing, just for eventual fixes after the fact. I can play my parts in. I guess I'm in minority?

Ahhh...so you make my point for me. I can play my parts in too (mostly - getting more and more difficult since Arthur Itis has come to stay here) but do have the need for eventual fixes. I feel with VST3 a greater level of score manipulation is possible. And since I work more with midi than audio starting a composition I think VST3 will give me greater flexibility in composition.

Minority or majority doesn't really matter. It's the purpose and tools of creation and the end result that means everything.

Happy musiking!
dsan

Tricky-Loops · Post by **Tricky-Loops** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:16 pm

koolkeys wrote:
Hink wrote:
koolkeys wrote: Can you DEFINE "old code"?
- .... .. ... / .. ... / --- .-.. -.. / -.-. --- -.. .
Ahhh, well I didn't know that Logic and DP were written in morse code.

See, if I would have known that.......

This is how coding was invented:

dsan@mail.com · Post by **dsan@mail.com** » Fri May 03, 2013 10:21 pm

koolkeys wrote:
hibidy wrote: I don't think I have any other vst3 plugs that I have.

I'm confused.

One for koolkeys catching it and one for hibidy saying it.

But I agree with hibidy - I don't think I have any others except those I have.

Happy musiking!
dsan

Did KVR Scare the Reaper Peeps Away?