Bitwig VS Ableton

[Trancit]

....
For example, I consider the modulation system in Bitwig to be essential DAW functionality which other DAW's are lacking.

But that´s actually more the instrument/sound design part... less of a DAW funtionality...
- ARA2
- Scale highlighting
- Snap to scale
- Transform tool for Automation segments and Editors
- Chord track
- Arranger track
- adding a plugin to multiple tracks at once
- Macros for shortcuts
- ...you name it...
would be imho DAW/workflow functionality...

There are a few DAW features Bitwig needs to add for me to not need another DAW (Logic) to supplement Bitwig. Native Pitch Correction is one. But then plenty of people rely on a plugin for that (Melodyne).

This is what I mean... and for the most people Melodyne without ARA isn´t an option neither having to record in live ...I don´t know... 100 stems on in total 10 different tracks...
I mean when do you do this??? Over night??

I think we can agree there is some stuff definetely lacking... but updates still have focus 80% on the instrument/sound design part while there is at max 20% DAW features inside...

And this isn´t matching the actual situation at all... Bitwigs instrument part is already (overdriven!) 200% more powerfull than all instruments out there while the DAW part is perhaps (overdriven!) at 20%...

This is like tuning a motor to 1000 horse powers while the chassis can handle at max a 100...

I think it´s now (should have been at least a year ago) really time to shift the focus/priority a bit (or a bit more)...

[SLiC]

- ARA2
- Scale highlighting
- Snap to scale
- Transform tool for Automation segments and Editors
- Chord track
- Arranger track
- adding a plugin to multiple tracks at once
- Macros for shortcuts
- ...you name it...

would be imho DAW/workflow functionality...

Although I don't personally consider any of those things necessary (although ARA2 is always useful) I am a bit confused as this is Bitwig Vs Ableton thread and Ableton doesn't have a lot of most of those features either?

[pdxindy]

....
For example, I consider the modulation system in Bitwig to be essential DAW functionality which other DAW's are lacking.

But that´s actually more the instrument/sound design part... less of a DAW funtionality...
- ARA2
- Scale highlighting
- Snap to scale
- Transform tool for Automation segments and Editors
- Chord track
- Arranger track
- adding a plugin to multiple tracks at once
- Macros for shortcuts
- ...you name it...
would be imho DAW/workflow functionality...

Like I said, different people have different ideas of what is DAW functionality and what is desirable DAW functionality. I do consider the modulation DAW functionality.

For your list... I would rather have native pitch correction than ARA2
Adding a plugin to multiple tracks would be a small beneficial workflow addition.
Some improvements to working with automation points would be welcome

The rest doesn't matter to me.

Also, Bitwig does things with some different methods. Cubase and Logic both have many tools to manipulate notes in the piano roll. Bitwig offers the Note Grid and Note FX devices as tools to manipulate notes in the piano roll. People with a more traditional DAW mindset might call what Cubase and Logic do, DAW functionality and they might call Bitwig's approach to the same thing a focus on devices and grid modules.

[jonljacobi]

We can, and have gone back and forth on this forever. Try them all, use the one you like best. Be happy about the variety you have to choose from.

[vurt]

We can, and have gone back and forth on this forever. Try them all, use the one you like best. Be happy about the variety you have to choose from.

from the looks of this forum, some folk get around the dilemma, by just buying all of them

[xbitz]

....
For example, I consider the modulation system in Bitwig to be essential DAW functionality which other DAW's are lacking.

But that´s actually more the instrument/sound design part... less of a DAW funtionality...
- ARA2
- Scale highlighting
- Snap to scale
- Transform tool for Automation segments and Editors
- Chord track
- Arranger track
- adding a plugin to multiple tracks at once
- Macros for shortcuts
- ...you name it...
would be imho DAW/workflow functionality...

Like I said, different people have different ideas of what is DAW functionality and what is desirable DAW functionality. I do consider the modulation DAW functionality.

For your list... I would rather have native pitch correction than ARA2
Adding a plugin to multiple tracks would be a small beneficial workflow addition.
Some improvements to working with automation points would be welcome

The rest doesn't matter to me.

Also, Bitwig does things with some different methods. Cubase and Logic both have many tools to manipulate notes in the piano roll. Bitwig offers the Note Grid and Note FX devices as tools to manipulate notes in the piano roll. People with a more traditional DAW mindset might call what Cubase and Logic do, DAW functionality and they might call Bitwig's approach to the same thing a focus on devices and grid modules.

Logic, Cubase etc. MUX can be used similar fashion way as Patcher in FL, just a far more powerful tool

if needs only basic modulations ... at least it has MSEG hello Bitwig

[BrokenTrance]

Ableton for me. Your samples and vst you load on the left side. For me more logical and neat. Minor detail perhaps. More concise interface. Bitwig feels cramped i think allso.

[EnGee]

We can, and have gone back and forth on this forever. Try them all, use the one you like best. Be happy about the variety you have to choose from.

from the looks of this forum, some folk get around the dilemma, by just buying all of them

Indeed! Buy a bunch of them and keep busy all your life comparing

You are full of solutions today! Have you stopped smoking (weed)?

[syntonica]

Some improvements to working with automation points would be welcome

Every DAW should have true automation clips. They were a true revelation to my workflow when I first used them.

(Planting a bug in devs' ears for those who are lurking... )

[pdxindy]

Some improvements to working with automation points would be welcome

Every DAW should have true automation clips. They were a true revelation to my workflow when I first used them.

(Planting a bug in devs' ears for those who are lurking... )

What is a true automation clip to you?

[syntonica]

What is a true automation clip to you?

I was used to the automation in Logic, just one long linear overlay over another track. It was a pain to line up edits and keep everything synced. Drove me crazy as I was going far beyond simple fades.

Basically, they are the same as a MIDI clip, except containing automation data. Automation clips can be edited, duplicated, and moved, even to a different track.

I know Mulab has them and I believe Reaper and FLS have them. I think you can fake them as a separate MIDI track in Studio One, but are not as fun and flexible.

I believe in Bitwig, they can be bound to a clip, but are not separable from the clip--i.e. they may not be freely moved or copied. If I am wrong in this, then I may be officially a Bitwig convert. I just need to go rob a bank real quick...

[vurt]

We can, and have gone back and forth on this forever. Try them all, use the one you like best. Be happy about the variety you have to choose from.

from the looks of this forum, some folk get around the dilemma, by just buying all of them

Indeed! Buy a bunch of them and keep busy all your life comparing

You are full of solutions today! Have you stopped smoking (weed)?

how very dare you!

of course i haven't

[Trancit]

...
For your list... I would rather have native pitch correction than ARA2
Adding a plugin to multiple tracks would be a small beneficial workflow addition.
Some improvements to working with automation points would be welcome

The rest doesn't matter to me.

....

This list was basically just some examples... replace it with whatever is of interest for you...

I personally find Bitwig as a single DAW hugely overpowered in terms of sound design and hugely underpowered when it comes to compose, edit midi in the piano roll, arrange, mix and manipulate arrangements and I would be very happy to see some updates with having the focus more on these types of improvements than the next double chorus or grid module...

[EnGee]

We can, and have gone back and forth on this forever. Try them all, use the one you like best. Be happy about the variety you have to choose from.

from the looks of this forum, some folk get around the dilemma, by just buying all of them

Indeed! Buy a bunch of them and keep busy all your life comparing

You are full of solutions today! Have you stopped smoking (weed)?

how very dare you!

of course i haven't

Oh I thought it is a result of ... ! Ok! In this case, keep smooking please

[pdxindy]

I believe in Bitwig, they can be bound to a clip, but are not separable from the clip--i.e. they may not be freely moved or copied. If I am wrong in this, then I may be officially a Bitwig convert. I just need to go rob a bank real quick...

Yes, Bitwig doesn't have separate automation clips. There is no facility to route automation like you can route midi between tracks.

A midi clip can have its own automation curves (they live in the clip not the track). There are 3 types of automation curves in the clip. Each parameter can have all 3 types at once. One is regular automation which controls the parameter and you cannot use the parameter itself. One is additive so it adds to whatever the knob is set at and you can still adjust the knob anytime. The third type is multiply which does as the name says and again the parameter itself is still freely movable.

Each of those 3 types for each parameter can have its own loop length and start point. So while they cannot exist independent of the midi clip, they can start and loop independently.

The only situation where you can create a separate automation clip is if you have a track with say an instrument on it and another track that has midi clips on it which are routed to the instrument, then you could have an empty midi clip on the instrument track and that clip could have automation. Since you cannot have overlapping clips, that would only work for 1 automated parameter if you wanted each in their own separate clip.

I often use modulators to do stuff that might be done with automation in DAW's that don't have Bitwig modulation system.