Official Serum 2 thread!

[HOTF]

I was trying to figure out why Sample&Hold LFO generates just random values instead of working like Sample&Hold. It's not S&H at all, it's random generator.

That's not unusual for any non-modular synth. Even analog synths from the 70s called it "S&H" when the only thing it could sample was the white noise generator.

Sure, let it sample noise generator. But where is that "hold" part?

It holds a value for the amount of time you set it... I'm not sure what you are not understanding

[ere2learn]

Sure, let it sample noise generator. But where is that "hold" part?

Screenshot 2025-03-20 184433.png

[kraster]

I was trying to figure out why Sample&Hold LFO generates just random values instead of working like Sample&Hold. It's not S&H at all, it's random generator.

That's not unusual for any non-modular synth. Even analog synths from the 70s called it "S&H" when the only thing it could sample was the white noise generator.

Sure, let it sample noise generator. But where is that "hold" part?

It samples the signal and holds that value until the next trigger happens at the rate specified.

Hence sample and hold.

[foosnark]

Sure, let it sample noise generator. But where is that "hold" part?

These are real synth basics here:

A sample and hold circuit has a value input, a trigger input, and an output. Whenever a trigger is received, the value is "sampled" and "held" at the output until the next trigger is received.

The most common usage for an S&H circuit by far, especially on a non-modular synth, is to hardwire a noise generator to the input and a squarewave LFO to the trigger.

[swilow11]

No idea if it would make a difference, but there is an S1 compatability mode switch in GLOBAL.

Hmm, i did notice this but had already done my 'test'. Do we know exactly what this mode does? (I have not rtfm!)

[pierb]

Hoping for a CPU optimization of the granulator, even on my M3 Max Mac, at the highest sample buffer in Logic 11.1.2 CPU maxes out with just a few voices played, this can't be right, any other granulator I use would laugh at this patch...

Anyone knows if Serum 2 runs worse on Apple Silicon vs Intel?

[Sampleconstruct]

Hoping for a CPU optimization of the granulator, even on my M3 Max Mac, at the highest sample buffer in Logic 11.1.2 CPU maxes out with just a few voices played, this can't be right, any other granulator I use would laugh at this patch...

Anyone knows if Serum 2 runs worse on Apple Silicon vs Intel?

From the Gearspace thread:

Question:
I was just wondering if it was some kind thing of amd thing is all.

David Gamble replied:
Could well be. Most of the profiling work was on intel but I just got a 9950 myself so I can take a look at that too Could very well be the case that some cache size issues are responsible. I'm not super worried just yet

[coroknight]

I was trying to figure out why Sample&Hold LFO generates just random values instead of working like Sample&Hold. It's not S&H at all, it's random generator.

That's not unusual for any non-modular synth. Even analog synths from the 70s called it "S&H" when the only thing it could sample was the white noise generator.

Sure, let it sample noise generator. But where is that "hold" part?

Because it's not continuously changing. It samples noise and holds the value for whatever interval you set like 1/4 notes

[PeterBPL]

I was trying to figure out why Sample&Hold LFO generates just random values instead of working like Sample&Hold. It's not S&H at all, it's random generator.

That's not unusual for any non-modular synth. Even analog synths from the 70s called it "S&H" when the only thing it could sample was the white noise generator.

Sure, let it sample noise generator. But where is that "hold" part?

Because it's not continuously changing. It samples noise and holds the value for whatever interval you set like 1/4 notes

Sample&Hold should work like this:
some signal is send to S&H and it constant changes until user freeze it while sending MIDI signal (note) and it holds as long as user holds that note.
If it's "hold for xx seconds" or something like this, it's just random lfo generator with various speed, not Sample&Hold. What are you not understand here?

Several synths have Sample&Hold function and everywhere it works like I described. For example - it's useful if I want to trigger filter cut at random position, but don't want filter to move when I am holding a note ("hold" by MIDI signal). This implementation of S&H in Serum2 just have no sense - I see no use of this S&H in Serum other than generating random values (faster or slower). I am happy that Serum2 have random modulator, but it's not Sample&Hold.

But if you're saying that everything is fine ("it's not a bug, it's a feature") then ok, no problem.

[coroknight]

I was trying to figure out why Sample&Hold LFO generates just random values instead of working like Sample&Hold. It's not S&H at all, it's random generator.

That's not unusual for any non-modular synth. Even analog synths from the 70s called it "S&H" when the only thing it could sample was the white noise generator.

Sure, let it sample noise generator. But where is that "hold" part?

Because it's not continuously changing. It samples noise and holds the value for whatever interval you set like 1/4 notes

Sample&Hold should work like this:
some signal is send to S&H and it constant changes until user freeze it while sending MIDI signal (note) and it holds as long as user holds that note.
If it's "hold for xx seconds" or something like this, it's just random lfo generator with various speed, not Sample&Hold. What are you not understand here?

Several synths have Sample&Hold function and everywhere it works like I described. For example - it's useful if I want to trigger filter cut at random position, but don't want filter to move when I am holding a note ("hold" by MIDI signal). This implementation of S&H in Serum2 just have no sense - I see no use of this S&H in Serum other than generating random values (faster or slower). I am happy that Serum2 have random modulator, but it's not Sample&Hold.

But if you're saying that everything is fine ("it's not a bug, it's a feature") then ok, no problem.

What are YOU not getting? It IS sample & hold, just with a limited feature set. It is sampling an audio source (limited to noise) and HOLDING it for an interval of time.

Just because you can't trigger it with midi, and just because it's limited to noise doesn't make it not sample and hold. Complain about the limited feature set, but complaining about the name is just dumb and pointless.

[Ah_Dziz]

The thing where the value is only held when midi/ gate is applied is called "track and hold". The module in serum is just sample and hold run by a clock source with noise being sampled. Nothing about what Peter said is what sample and hold does. Track and hold modules are often found in modular stuff.

[ere2learn]

If it's "hold for xx seconds" or something like this,

how many seconds is 0 hz?

Screenshot 2025-03-20 184433.png

[ere2learn]

Just because you can't trigger it with midi

You can

[PeterBPL]

Btw. in PhasePlant, Falcon or MSoundFactory it's "Sample & Hold" and it works like I described, not "Track & Hold". I don't understand why my opinion starts offensive comments. Is it really needed?

I finally found a method to made it works like I described. A small trick. This zero rate was something I tried before, but I paired it with wrong modulator thinking that it works different. Now, after a while, when I know how it works (random generator with rate control) I can made my Sample&Hold exactly what I wanted.

[Ah_Dziz]

Not trying to be offensive. Just trying to use the proper terminology. Sample and hold is just a way of making a stepped signal from a continuous one. Many software implementations just use a random value generator or call it a Random modulator as sampling noise is one of the most common ways sample and hold is used. It's also the principal behind analog to digital conversion.

Track and hold basically just combines sample and hold with a switch.

There's plenty of improper terminology used in plugins but as these things are based off of actual circuits the do specific things, people will be confused if you refer to a sample and hold doing something that a sample and hold circuit doesn't do.