Real amps vs modelling and plugin amps

[stoopicus]

Just use what you like and kwitcher bitchin. You want a tube amp? Play a tube amp? If you're happy with modelers/profilers play those. Guitarists have NEVER had more options to sculpt the tone they hear in their head. I'm old as dust. When I started playing we had FAR less choices. Somehow we made do. Personally, I'm overjoyed to have so many choices at my disposal. All that being said.....forget Dweezil....as FRANK said: "Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar".

Agree - this is a golden age for music in general but synths, guitar and bass in particular. Very high quality instruments are now inexpensive, you can get a giant range of excellent amp and effect tones for very little money, and there's great song (and instrument!) learning resources online for free. It's insane how good it is now compared to even 10-20 years ago.

[Naillerz78]

So I struggle to continue to create anything.
As I have no other reference in my brain to link that great Sim sound to.

And that’s the gods honest truth of my experience.

MT Power is a nice drum machine tool, donationware, with a nag screen, but lots of grooves and options. Just fire it up and start recording. Go through various sim presets, Axiom, Guitar Rig, Amplitude yada yada are good enough. Axiom has a handy 'Legends' menu, with lots of variety, and loads 3rd party 64bit plugins in its chains, simple to craft excellent sounds. Keep your feet on the ground, press the record button, and 'be happy'.

That sounds very interesting. I usually Load up drum samples into a track in Reaper and do it all there. I will check it out.
I’ll reinstall Axiom and check out the Legends also.
Cheers

[Naillerz78]

DP

[Naillerz78]

Just use what you like and kwitcher bitchin. You want a tube amp? Play a tube amp? If you're happy with modelers/profilers play those. Guitarists have NEVER had more options to sculpt the tone they hear in their head. I'm old as dust. When I started playing we had FAR less choices. Somehow we made do. Personally, I'm overjoyed to have so many choices at my disposal. All that being said.....forget Dweezil....as FRANK said: "Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar".

Ok sure Grandpa ..now let’s get you your pills
Just kidding. I’m a boomer.

But unfortunately the title of this thread isn’t
“ is this the golden age to be a guitarist “
it’s “ Real amps VS. modelling and plugin amps“.

it’s a “VERSUS ” thread. Which one responds and sounds better for playing guitar. So it’s an opinions thread one vs the other.OP laid out his opinion he prefers real amps to modelling.

So do you have an actual opinion on sims or what

[YnJ]

Yes. IK Multimedia and Hotone also make versions, among others. Maybe something like the Tonex One is the best option, that way you can capture whatever sound you make and use it without your computer later

I already ordered it, it seems you can use any plugin or chain of plugins inserted in you hardware setup. It was cheap, $90 including shipping, and I'm only going to use it at home anyway

[YnJ]

I've had two transistor amps, a Marshall and an Ampeg. Both had great sound. I knew the Valvestate wasn't tube, but I honestly didn't realize the Ampeg was transistor based until I got home. I was just shopping by sound and it was the one I think sounded the best. It beat out a whole bunch of tube amps.

I still have a Valvestate 100V amphead. There's a 12AX7 tube in the preamp, it's basically a solid state amp though. It's broken and I can't recall what it sounded like, in use it was quickly replaced with a Rocktron Chameleon solid state preamp and a Marshall Dual Monoblock power amp. I'll have it looked at at some point and see if it's worth repairing. There are some solid state amps which sounds really good though. I have had my eye on an Orange Super Crush for a while now, they released a series of new solid state amps in the same price range though, and now I'm thinking of getting a Gain Baby instead. I just need to try it or at least do some research on the internet to decide

[Naillerz78]

Do you guys wanna list your top 5 amp sims ? Id be interested in top pick for favorite IR loader also. cheers.

For quick practicing my go #1 old reliable is always ToneLib GFX. (!) It’s an old ,basic but very solid sim, with minimal fizz. I think it was based on a Zoom modeller(?)

Then
-SGear
-Guitar Rig 5/6
-Softtube Vintage Amp Room - fender +Vox amps

now and thens ;Axiom & Kuassa 360 , mainly for their effects.Axioms ‘late replies’ is a very nice fx .
All the other newer plugins, including Neural DSPs I’ve found no better than the old sims .I don’t get the hype especially NeuralDSP.
I’ve tried Brainworx, Nembrini, Mercuriall, Bias FX ML Soundlab and heaps of others so far on the testing journey.

[stoopicus]

Bass amps and preamps:
Current: Kuassa Cerberus (old! Still my favorite)

Former:
STL Ignite (old and free!)
The many Ampeg and Gallien-Kruger sims in Amplitube 5 max (not old or free!)
NeuralDSP Darkglass Ultra (a preamp sim of both the Darkglass B7K and Darkglass Vintage Microtubes)

Guitar amps:
Current: Kuassa Amplifikation Clarent, Caliburn and Lancaster; Caliburn probably #1

Former:
NeuralDSP Soldano SLO-100
The various Marshalls and Soldano in Amplitube 5 Max

Hardware wise, I have never been in to amps at all, but was very in to preamps for a while. I have owned both solid state and tube preamps; my favorite was a tube preamp but I have had solid state ones that sounded just as tube-like.

Next we could go deep on tubes I guess. I prefer 5751 to 12ax7, less saturation when overdriving IMO, especially important for bass

[tapper mike]

I am unable to find inspiration. Period.
After trying 100+ of them , since time.

Cos it ALL still sounds the same, despite everything touted as being a “game -changer” every year , since time.
And chasing my tail for hundreds of hours (maybe thousands) like thousands of other users have and still do today (at the ‘cutting edge’ of the tech)

/

I feel your pain.

Steve Howe of Yes was an ardent gear collector. Guitars, Amps, Effects. He had an epiphany one day. Regardless of the gear I play I still sound like me. Your technique may be limiting you more than your gear. I too walk that path and I'm constantly having internal dialog should I just be happy where I am or should I try to expand my musical horizons? Great musicians rarely move from what they know works for them and consequences can be dire if they do

Not that I consider myself great but when I was in a band playing covers four nights a week and taking home serious change I felt part of my musicality was suffering because it was always same old me doing the same old songs the same old way. I had to let a great deal of my other guitar sides go to make it happen and it was a struggle after the band days were done to bring them back.

If you are looking for inspiration stop looking at tone as the be all end all and start looking at style. If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you've always got.

PG Music's Band In A Box is a musicians best friend for quick scoring and expanding one's technique.


Pick style. Insert Chords and go. Or load the appropriate demo song for the style.

[Naillerz78]

I feel your pain.

Steve Howe of Yes was an ardent gear collector. Guitars, Amps, Effects. He had an epiphany one day. Regardless of the gear I play I still sound like me. Your technique may be limiting you more than your gear. I too walk that path and I'm constantly having internal dialog should I just be happy where I am or should I try to expand my musical horizons? Great musicians rarely move from what they know works for them and consequences can be dire if they do

Not that I consider myself great but when I was in a band playing covers four nights a week and taking home serious change I felt part of my musicality was suffering because it was always same old me doing the same old songs the same old way. I had to let a great deal of my other guitar sides go to make it happen and it was a struggle after the band days were done to bring them back.

If you are looking for inspiration stop looking at tone as the be all end all and start looking at style. If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you've always got.

PG Music's Band In A Box is a musicians best friend for quick scoring and expanding one's technique.


Pick style. Insert Chords and go. Or load the appropriate demo song for the style.

Yea I get that. Cool story about Howe he’s incredible (gonna learn all of Siberian Khatru some day, I can play the intro only -crazy song!) .I love Tom Bukovac the Nashville session guy, tuned in to his YT channel during Covid and learned heaps.
He said the same thing also and it’s struck me so true at the time. he’s owned 1,000 plus amazing guitars - said “ why do we do it? All this buying and selling guitars.looking for Excalibur - the sword in the stone.. but it’s doesn’t matter how many I buy I make em all sound like ME”
, old ‘Uncle Larry’..one of the best guys at teaching of YT.

Yeah I get stuck in a rut too for ages. Getting older it’s harder to listen to new music etc and I tend to stick to what I know.

I’ll defs try that Band In A Box. Cheers.

With testing sims , sometimes I just play even simple rhythm guitar w power chords to start with and just go “ ugh. Wtf” . Some just really sound bad and cardboard-like out of the box.

I’ll pop up some basic recordings here I’ve done with sims. I guess there’s a difference between feel/response when playing vs when the plug is applied to an already recorded DI track, some sound better for the latter but dont feel/ respond right for practicing and tryna create.

The Bias Spark 2 combo amp I tried recently was very responsive from a short test. I’ll be checking that out again for a longer play through.

[stoopicus]

One thing to bear in mind with sims is levels. Many of them model the originals at 0dBu = -18dBFS, so if you try and send it a track that isn’t properly gain staged you’re going to have a bad time. Apologies if you already knew that but if you did not - try gain staging down to between -18 and -12dBFS before the sim and see if it sounds better and less overdriven.

[profi182]

One thing to bear in mind with sims is levels. Many of them model the originals at 0dBu = -18dBFS, so if you try and send it a track that isn’t properly gain staged you’re going to have a bad time. Apologies if you already knew that but if you did not - try gain staging down to between -18 and -12dBFS before the sim and see if it sounds better and less overdriven.

Good point. Something which poses a bit of a headache if you're testing out different presets on Amplitube (less so with other amp sims I've tried) is the inconsistency in required input gain per preset.

[CapnLockheed]

Just use what you like and kwitcher bitchin. You want a tube amp? Play a tube amp? If you're happy with modelers/profilers play those. Guitarists have NEVER had more options to sculpt the tone they hear in their head. I'm old as dust. When I started playing we had FAR less choices. Somehow we made do. Personally, I'm overjoyed to have so many choices at my disposal. All that being said.....forget Dweezil....as FRANK said: "Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar".

Ok sure Grandpa ..now let’s get you your pills
Just kidding. I’m a boomer.

But unfortunately the title of this thread isn’t
“ is this the golden age to be a guitarist “
it’s “ Real amps VS. modelling and plugin amps“.

it’s a “VERSUS ” thread. Which one responds and sounds better for playing guitar. So it’s an opinions thread one vs the other.OP laid out his opinion he prefers real amps to modelling.

So do you have an actual opinion on sims or what

I'm sorry my response wasn't clear enough for you. As I stated:

Personally, I'm overjoyed to have so many choices at my disposal.

If I didn't like ampsims then I'd hardly be overjoyed to have them. My point is that they are viable tools....more colors on the palette. Pros use them onstage and in the studio. Do I think they're better than "real" amps. That depends on the amp in question. Some cheap solid state amps sound like dog doo IMHO and I would gladly use a profiler like Tonex instead. That being said....would I rather be playing a 100watt Orange or Marshall full stack turned up so loud that it moves enough air to make my pants flap in the breeze? HELL YES!! Personally this NOT an apples vs. oranges question to me. Amps and sims both have a place in my studio. Sometimes different situations require different tools. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[YnJ]

Modelling overdrive and distortion pedals doesn't seem to work well, at least not in the same multieffect. I got the Line 6 HX One Helix pedal. All the overdrive and distortion models sounded pretty much the same with just some difference in EQ. The overdrive/distortion sounded decent enough, probably the most generic overdrive/distortion I've heard though. There were quite a few usable effects, the typical effects like reverb, chorus and delay fell short compared even to my TC Electronic M350 though. And the M350 isn't exactly a high end unit, I think when they were new they sold for half of what you have to pay for the Line 6 pedal. I get it's a multitool and you can't expect too much from it, I still didn't see any need for it and since it was freezing up once in a while as well I returned it

[YnJ]

Do you guys wanna list your top 5 amp sims ? Id be interested in top pick for favorite IR loader also

If I should name a favourite it would be the Line 6 Metalurgy amp sims. There are three of them, each with four different amps, some fictional and some based on real amps. Those based on real amps sound close enough for me as far as I can tell, and the cab section is pretty good and the effects are pretty good as well. Apart from that I prefer single amp sims, you can always add effects both in front and after, as well as an IR loader or cab sim. I don't have any specific favourite, I think I've used those from Plugin Alliance most though

As for IR loaders, I don't know if there are any differences in sound depending on which IR loader you use, apart from those with EQ and such? I like to add some noise to the mix when using an IR loader, I have some I think I got with Trash 2 which I use almost like a spice to give the IR more character. Also I like to use the IRDX Core after the IR loader, which makes it sound if not more realistic at least fuller. I quite like cab sims though, ML Sound has two which both works well. Their amp sims might not be the best, the cab sims are quite good though. Softtube has a pretty good cab sim with models of Celestion speakers, and you can play around with the cabs material, speakers magnets, how many speakers and even resize the speakers. Celestion has a cab sim as well, it sounded really good to me. Quite expensive though as you had to pay for extra speaker models as well. It started to freeze and crash my DAW every time I used it though, and after support had asked me to unistall and reinstall it and it still froze and crashed, I didn't hear more from them, and asked for a refund instead. I would have kept it if it worked on my computer though