Could someone please explain anti-loop snobbery?

[whyterabbyt]

Loops r0ckz

[clueless]

Ketchup on Wagner, eh?

What an amazing concept..

there's a truly apalling joke in there somewhere about hot-dogs and Bach

I'll leave it...

*edit*...to Meffy!

[clueless]

*ok, it's not classical, it's baroque, but you get the idea

barock

[soulata]

And it's the groove that make people dance (something that can't be done with classical,IMHO).

yes (first part) and no (bach IS groovy and does groove when played well)*

Maybe by your own defintion of groove

Maybe

Thanks Clueless. It just felt right writing it baroque after a night of tarock.


edit: wasn't there a b's 9th sample in a hit song last year? can't remember the title, a guy on a bicycle in the video...

[Ja.x]

Are we talking about:

a)Music based on sample loops? Never used, not sure if I know how, I admit I feel a bit awkward about it and I want all my sounds coming from my mind/hands/gear. But that's me, nothing against, neverthless.

Or...?

b)Music based on loops (make my own): I use it all the time, that's the main reason why Muzys has such a great workflow for me. Neverthless I'm realizing it's a bit of a temptation to keep on going on the easy side and overuse loops, and that's why I'm trying now the energyXT demo: to change a bit my way of working (and also because I want audio).

[farlukar]

I farted once into an AKG large condender mic while recording to hard disk, took the resulting wav. file normalized it, cut the fat from the front and end of it, imported it into a channel in my software DAW.
Ran that channel's volume through a hard square LFO
synchronized to the host BPM of 120, in quarter notes.
Then applied a second LFO to the channels filter frequency, only this time I used a sine wave instead of a square lowered it's effect to mid way, and set its BPM to the host in whole notes. I then put a flange effect in the channels mixer FX slot and linked the wet signal to the y axis of my MIDI controller and the channel's filter resonance level to x axis of the same controller, making it playable in real time.

It sounded good

Would you mind posting this in the music café?

[IIRs]

And it's the groove that make people dance (something that can't be done with classical,IMHO).

Waltz
Minuet
Gavotte
Polka
Sarabande
any kind of ballet..

All dancing I believe, even if it doesn't take place around a handbag..

[herodotus]

There can be specific artistic reasons for utterly repetitive looping, which no real drummer could provide.

I have really been noticing this lately. You can play the same thing 100 times with metronomic precision and still each repetition will sound different under the microscope of a wave editor.

Some loops just 'sing' much more than others, and in a different (not better or worse, just different) way than 'manual' repetition.

[pHz]

how long is a loop ???
slainte rob

2 to 4 bars.

how so ???

slainte rob

[Stupid American Pig]

A loop could be an entire 10 minute composition as long as it LOOPS....

[Omniphonix]

I think if we look at composition in the classical sense, using other people's sounds is not cheating, but using other people's arrangements is cheating. Before electricity even existed, composers were stuck with a static sound set (violin, clarinet, trumpt, xylophone, etc.) and wrote every last note on paper to create entire symphonies. I liken this to sequncing nowadays. Write every last MIDI note in your sequencer and you're not cheating. Using other people's loops would be like copying down someone else's arrangement in the old days (I'm sure this happened back then as well).

We use loops sparingly in our tracks and usually just to accent to "meat and potatoes" of a track. Even then, they are effected and f**ked around so much they are unrecognizable. If you use someone else's loops as a basis for one of your parts (drums, lead, bass, whatever), you could easily sell a bunch of records, but you're still a wanker as far as I'm concerned.

So yeah, the listening public only cares about the end result, but you're not going to earn much respect from other musicians. If that's all you can do, you might as well just be a DJ. They get all the fame anyway.

[Sascha Franck]

So yeah, the listening public only cares about the end result, but you're not going to earn much respect from other musicians.

That (fortunately) is nonsense.
I'm earning a lot of respect from other musicians because of my knowledge about how to incorporate loops.
Sometimes I'm even called to beef up some things using loops.

And no, I'm not allways mangling them beyond recognition - just trying to use them with taste.

[Omniphonix]

So yeah, the listening public only cares about the end result, but you're not going to earn much respect from other musicians.

That (fortunately) is nonsense.
I'm earning a lot of respect from other musicians because of my knowledge about how to incorporate loops.
Sometimes I'm even called to beef up some things using loops.

And no, I'm not allways mangling them beyond recognition - just trying to use them with taste.

OK, let me quantify that with the word "most".

[munchkin]

I think if we look at composition in the classical sense, using other people's sounds is not cheating, but using other people's arrangements is cheating. Before electricity even existed, composers were stuck with a static sound set (violin, clarinet, trumpt, xylophone, etc.) and wrote every last note on paper to create entire symphonies. I liken this to sequncing nowadays. Write every last MIDI note in your sequencer and you're not cheating. Using other people's loops would be like copying down someone else's arrangement in the old days (I'm sure this happened back then as well).

We use loops sparingly in our tracks and usually just to accent to "meat and potatoes" of a track. Even then, they are effected and f**ked around so much they are unrecognizable. If you use someone else's loops as a basis for one of your parts (drums, lead, bass, whatever), you could easily sell a bunch of records, but you're still a wanker as far as I'm concerned.

So yeah, the listening public only cares about the end result, but you're not going to earn much respect from other musicians. If that's all you can do, you might as well just be a DJ. They get all the fame anyway.

http://www.stockhausen.org/tape_loops.html

http://www.prefuse73.com/home.shtml

http://www.publicenemy.com/



If only you could let go of your bias and snobbery you might impress us with something as great as these composers...

[Omniphonix]

Your first link sounds more like an expermiment in the manipulation of recorded sound and pioneering in the ways of electronic music. My whole argument is against those who use other people's loops as the complete basis for a composition. That does not sound much like what he's done here.

As for your hip hop examples, that really doesn't impress me at all. There are very few hip hop productions I find artistically impressive. Most of the ones on that short list have more to do with the skills of the MC than the backbeat carrying the track.