Sytrus vs Rhino [6 years dead thread bumped; go to page 21]

[kodama]

I really wanted an arpeggiator built-in envelopes, because note-based arpeggiators is more a tool for a host than a synthesizer.

Basically, this kind of arp will keep playing the whole chord all the time, and alternate levels (of whatever you want) between the notes held. In the screenshot you can see point markers that say 'same/previous/next note in the arp'. By varying them in different envelopes you can get very dynamic stuff.

Looks sweet!


BTW - I love Rhino & Sytrus, but if I could only have one, it would be Sytrus.

The GUI in Sytrus is very intuitive, if I only had one wish about it, you could guess that it would be an option for a larger version [Ducks as Gol reaches for gun]

[serge]

I really wanted an arpeggiator built-in envelopes, because note-based arpeggiators is more a tool for a host than a synthesizer.

Basically, this kind of arp will keep playing the whole chord all the time, and alternate levels (of whatever you want) between the notes held. In the screenshot you can see point markers that say 'same/previous/next note in the arp'. By varying them in different envelopes you can get very dynamic stuff.

Would you wish for sytrus to be a rompler or sampler as well?

serge
Looks sweet!


BTW - I love Rhino & Sytrus, but if I could only have one, it would be Sytrus.

The GUI in Sytrus is very intuitive, if I only had one wish about it, you could guess that it would be an option for a larger version [Ducks as Gol reaches for gun]

[tony tony chopper]

I'd expect a business person

But I'm not a business person, I'm the programmer, that's why I talk about features and not business. Business persons chose not to debate, as you'd expect.

I use Live, but I did notice that many of the parameters I wanted access to were not published, like filter cut off for one (!)

mmh I can assure you that all 3 filter cutoff knobs are published parameters. It's named 'F n Cutoff Frequency' in the VSTi. Maybe Live doesn't list them all?

[tony tony chopper]

No usability engineer would ever say "it's the user's fault" when is there is a possible fix that could address the issue.

There's nothing to fix if nothing is broken, I said it's the user's fault if things are louder than they should be. It's just marketing.

You wrote:

I've worked as a mastering engineer, so the whole "louder is better" thing drives me to distraction

Meaning that you've probably been asked to make something 'louder' from your clients in the past. I'm sure that you DID make what they asked for, in which case who do you blame:
-yourself for accepting to participate to the 'louder is better' trend?
-the client who wants louder?
-the listener who mixes loudness with quality?

I'm in the same position as you as a programmer. I'd never make anything too loud by myself. I hope you realize that FL is a victim of that - quite often we're told that the app 'makes samples sound bad', only because of the default level reduction.

[Big Tick]

To whoever still has Rhino 1, open it, go to an oscillator tab, from the oscillator display, watch the list of oscillators in the menu. You'll find plenty of samples here (I don't quite remember, there should be cymbals, pianos, violins, insect noises, choir voices, etc, I think that a lot of the 2 version were in the 1 already).
Maybe jens naively thinks they were synthesized (and some of the small shapes probably were synthesized), but they were not. Because if Big Tick managed to synthesize all those, he's a god - no one so far managed to.

There are indeed some SAMPLES (of insects, machine noises, woman moans from a x-rated movie, angelina-generated choirs, metal objects, ... but no pianos or violins if I remember correctly). However these samples are usually too short to be used as imitations of the real thing - this was not the intend. The idea was to use these as organic textures, for instance these crickets can do lovely percussions when pitched down and run through a rhythmic envelope.

Anyway, the synth who inspired me most when coding Rhino were my Korg 01W and Yamaha DX7 - That probably defines the synth better than any generic term.

Finally, anyone interested in the history of Rhino should check the interview in MusicFaq.

'Tick

[kodama]

I use Live, but I did notice that many of the parameters I wanted access to were not published, like filter cut off for one (!)

mmh I can assure you that all 3 filter cutoff knobs are published parameters. It's named 'F n Cutoff Frequency' in the VSTi. Maybe Live doesn't list them all?

Maybe so, Live shows from M Master level to Op3 Pan sust le....

[MickGael]

No usability engineer would ever say "it's the user's fault" when is there is a possible fix that could address the issue.

There's nothing to fix if nothing is broken, I said it's the user's fault if things are louder than they should be. It's just marketing.

You wrote:

I've worked as a mastering engineer, so the whole "louder is better" thing drives me to distraction

Meaning that you've probably been asked to make something 'louder' from your clients in the past. I'm sure that you DID make what they asked for, in which case who do you blame:
-yourself for accepting to participate to the 'louder is better' trend?
-the client who wants louder?
-the listener who mixes loudness with quality?

I'm in the same position as you as a programmer. I'd never make anything too loud by myself. I hope you realize that FL is a victim of that - quite often we're told that the app 'makes samples sound bad', only because of the default level reduction.

Wow....

No offense, Tony, but your defensive - almost combative - tone is (I am sorry to say) quite alientating.

In every other instance instance where I have contacted (or posted a comment) for the devs here, they have expressed gratitude that I care enough to make suggestions or offer a "wish-list."

Most times (and this is what makes this community so special) they have actually implemeted the feature.

At the very least, they had the tact to say that they would consider it as part of a future update and not suggest "There's nothing to fix if nothing is broken."

The ability to define global volume as a preference IS fantastically helpul. I am confident I am not alone in thinking that.

If the reaction to a genuinely well-intended suggest/wish-list item (I made a clear attempt to outline all the things I think you have done exceptionally well) is to say "There's nothing to fix if nothing is broken," then what kind of supprt can anyone expect?

More the pity...

[tony tony chopper]

ok I shouldn't have said anything (if it suits you better)

Btw if you read correctly I didn't say user error, but host error. If your host sets a too big gain by default on plugins, it's a host error. And the reason it does is indeed.. because it's what most users want.

It's just like the Live issue with not all parameters being listed. Is it an issue with Live, or our plugin?

[fuego96]

You could also not listen to that jens crybaby, and make your own investigation instead. You'll then discover than Rhino 1 had a built-in sample bank (=synthesizer + rompler [rom as in read only memory]), while Rhino 2 supports external samples (=synthesizer + sampler [rampler]).
(let's see if jens proves otherwise, or is gonna whine again).

No need. It's pretty obvious to me who here knows what a real synth is and who doesn't

Besides, it's pointless to discuss such things with folks who respond with such infantile behavior.

[fuego96]

However these samples are usually too short to be used as imitations of the real thing - this was not the intend. The idea was to use these as organic textures, for instance these crickets can do lovely percussions when pitched down and run through a rhythmic envelope.

Just like the Roland D-50? Then it's an additive synth or an LA (Linear Arithmetic) synth no?

Whatever the case, if a "synth" whose oscillators can use synthetic as well as non-synthetically generated (ie. not oscillated and modulated algorithmically) waveforms, then couldn't it be classified as a hybrid synth?

Right now, the sounds of both synths is of least importance. The classification is.

[envoy]

The sounds of both synths do not concern me at the moment. It's the classification that does.

So this is what it comes to: not how an instrument sounds, but what label to put on it. I guess I just don't get it!

envoy

[MickGael]

ok I shouldn't have said anything (if it suits you better)

Amazing...absolutely amazing....

Out of respect I took 20 minutes to write and rewrite my post to be sure that it was respectful and polite, to make it clear my intentions were good, to indicate I was a potential customer, and to note all the things I like and appreciate...

And you respond this way.

It is not surprising that you wrote:

"...I'm not a business person, I'm the programmer..."

It is painfully apparent.

Screw it....

[fuego96]

So this is what it comes to: not how an instrument sounds, but what label to put on it. I guess I just don't get it!

What's wrong with classifying synths?
I want to know that I'm not buying just another FM Synth

BTW. I'm a firm believer in programming my own patches. So, it's rather different for me.

[Jaeson Merrill]

You could also not listen to that jens crybaby...

Is this the objective voice of a developer? I'd have to think twice before sending my money to someone who can't rise above this kind of dialogue.

envoy

nope you f**ker - I'm just an annoyed user - I am in no way related to Tick other than being a loyal customer

wow, a bit sensitive here.

someone needs some valium.. we're talking about 1s and 0s right?

[envoy]

wow, a bit sensitive here.
someone needs some valium.. we're talking about 1s and 0s right?

Yes, he already apologized, and noted that he mis-read the comments...