KVR Audio

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:08 pm

jjsr wrote:+1 @ Franzel

This is the case. My experiences with (other) Sidechain-plugs:
Set up a Quadro-Bus, routing the <to processing> signal to the front pair and the trigger signal to the rear pair. That's all. So it should work. e.g. in fabfilters Pro-C (SC Plugin Version) this works fine. You don't hear the trigger signal except you go to the expert page of their plug and toggle the 'Audition'-Button.

So in conclusion: in a Sidechain-capable Plugin the Trigger Signal isn't mixed with the <to prcessing> signal.

I don't know how Sidechaining is handled in other Sequencers...

Regarding Cubases' very odd Quadro buss mechanism: I cannot say what other plugins like the fabfilter one are doing, but I know I am doing the right thing in The Glue with inputs and outputs. Perhaps you could try inserting a stereo plugin on the quadro bus, and bus the audio and see if you hear it. This will simulate what is happening with The Glue, since I only have a single stereo output and do nothing with the extra stereo input apart from allow it to be used as the key signal to compress from.

Andrew Simper

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:51 pm

@Cubase 5 users: if you hear the key signal at the output then this has been confirmed as Cubase mixing the 3+4 (Ls Rs) signal down to the output. To stop this from happening please insert in i8 (the last insert slow which is post fader) the Surround -> Mix6to2 with the Preset "Stereo" which has the level of the 3+4 signal at -oo dB and the level of the 1+2 signal at 0 dB.

Also if you need any further information about how best to use Cubase I can't help as I don't really use it, so you will need to consult your manual or a Cubase user forum.

Andrew Simper

Franzel · Post by **Franzel** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:58 pm

Andy, I totally agree with you on that infamous quad bus workaround. Nonetheless Pro C and Crunchessor work as expected, while the Glue (which I love dearly!) does not. I'm foremost a musician, not an engineer, so I have no idea at this moment, what's causing the issue. I'll gladly do some tests, though, if you tell me exactly what I'd have to do to figure out what's going on.

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:00 pm

Franzel wrote:Andy, I totally agree with you on that infamous quad bus workaround. Nonetheless Pro C and Crunchessor work as expected, while the Glue (which I love dearly!) does not. I'm foremost a musician, not an engineer, so I have no idea at this moment, what's causing the issue. I'll gladly do some tests, though, if you tell me exactly what I'd have to do to figure out what's going on.

Not sure if you just got the previous post or we overlapped. There is nothing going on that isn't Cubase doing whatever it wants. If you are using a Quadro bus then just insert a Mix6to2 with the Stereo preset in the i8 of the Quadro bus to not hear the Ls Rs signal.

I'm not sure why Steinberg have made it so difficult for people to make music using external sidechains. They have given me no technical reason that they can't support vst3 like user friendly routing with vst 2.x plugins.

Andrew Simper

Franzel · Post by **Franzel** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:07 pm

Yep, gotcha, we indeed overlapped, just saw your new post above mine!
Thanks, I'll give it a try!

Cheers, Hans

ericj23 · Post by **ericj23** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:07 pm

I always thought the trick was for the plug to have 4 inputs and two outputs - that way the second set of inputs (ie the sidechain) remain silent. I suspect that's what all other sidechain compressors do, or that's how it appears anyway

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:10 pm

ericj23 wrote:I always thought the trick was for the plug to have 4 inputs and two outputs - that way the second set of inputs (ie the sidechain) remain silent. I suspect that's what all other sidechain compressors do, or that's how it appears anyway

I do have 4 ins and 2 outs! Perhaps they have 4 ins and 4 outs and silence the second stereo output each time as a workaround for Cubase users as no other host on the planet requires this.

Andrew Simper

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:25 pm

I am using an excellent plugin framekwork called "Juce". It is what tracktion and Circle anre written in. The person that wrote it Julian is a great guy but I think I am pushing Juce in directions no one has tested before.

I have just made a copy of the Juce demo project with 4 inputs and 2 outputs, which is what I do for The Glue. The Juce Demo plugin crashes on exit after being inserted on a Quadro bus just like The Glue does, so I am quite certain the crash is due to the Juce framework. I have contacted Julian and hopefully he will know a possible solution to this issue.

Andrew Simper

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:30 pm

Yes it seems the problem is with Juce not handling the way Cubase does it's buses which is unlike all other hosts:

http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce ... php?t=3756

Andrew Simper

djsubject · Post by **djsubject** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:54 pm

Jules is a great guy! & his frame work has come along way since the days of Tracktion 1 when i first met him

i hope you & he can sort something for the unlucky Cubase users

i work with C4 @ one of the studios i work with & the quad surround way of side chaining had me lost

(& still dose)

i'm not a big cubase fan but have yet to try C5,

any who, since 1.0.10 i'm really loving the pump on the glue!!

Subz

Franzel · Post by **Franzel** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:41 pm

Hey Andy, thanks, tried your suggestion and it worked.

Glad to hear you found out about the reason for the "Cubase-crash-on-exit" bug, too.

Cheers, Hans

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:01 pm

@Cubase 5 users:

(edit: I think it's something to do with asio4all actually since I just swapped over to using my echo indigo i/o and the problem has vanished)

I'm pretty sure I have fixed the crash on exit, but there is another bug I have found that will cause people trouble. The bug seems to be in Cubase, but could be in asio4all. I have set up a test project where I load it and press play and hear nothing for a while, then after what seems a random time from around 10 seconds to a minute I hear the audio as it should be. The project contains nothing but two stereo audio files, a quadro bus, and one plugin, the Mix6to2.

Can all Cubase 5 users having trouble with the Glue please test this project and double check you also get silence when you press play?

Cubase 5 Quadro Test

Thanks,

Andrew Simper

djsubject · Post by **djsubject** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:14 pm

lots of glue on this

http://djsubject.googlepages.com/machinegun.mp3

Subz

meloco_go · Post by **meloco_go** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:28 am

I found I like Glue for snare very much with fastest attack and release around 0.4, 4:1 aiming for about 5 dB gain reduction. Kinda unusual sounding compression for snare, but very natural sound, very transparent.
Now I wish Andy would make something like 1176 or distressor for drum slam.

Ankherias · Post by **Ankherias** » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:28 am

andy_cytomic wrote:Can all Cubase 5 users having trouble with the Glue please test this project and double check you also get silence when you press play?

Cubase 5 Quadro Test

I use C5 and asio4all and I didn't get any silence at play.

Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor