The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread

[DanteUruzu]

^Everytime you predict when it's coming out they roll it back a week. Keep trying if you really want crossfades.

I've heard that devs do that but I didn't really think it was true. xD

[crazyfiltertweaker]

hello,
here are some question, maybe someone, who is beta tester, could answer them? this would be nice and it is maybe also interesting for others!

1.automation renaming possible?
2.bouncing in place destructive and deleting the MIDI?
3.if automating a parameter with a controler, is the automation step size 128 steps(MIDI) or is it sill high resolution?
4.is there a automation standard value, to which bitwig snaps if you are close to it with a automation breakpoint?
5.realtime EQ spectrogram?
6.do all kind of automation follows clips with editing like deleting moving, duplicating?

Please answer! They are maybe the most important questions I have now!

[hibidy]

^Everytime you predict when it's coming out they roll it back a week. Keep trying if you really want crossfades.

I wouldn't be surprised

[dayjob]

3.if automating a parameter with a controler, is the automation step size 128 steps(MIDI) or is it sill high resolution?

is that even possible? i guess it would have to convert the midi to something else after it's recorded? midi is midi right??? so midi can't magically become something w/more resolution it already has unless the "convert after recording" option is there.. or something similar?? right?

good question though... it'd be nice to know...

[jeffh]

is that even possible? i guess it would have to convert the midi to something else after it's recorded? midi is midi right??? so midi can't magically become something w/more resolution it already has unless the "convert after recording" option is there.. or something similar?? right?

good question though... it'd be nice to know...

It's very possible, all "hi resolution" automation works that way... They're not storing one-automation-point per sample, they're storing a list of points and drawing extra points in-between the points... Some apps either choose not to smooth CC values, or else just do it badly, but automation isn't like audio where tiny loss of hi frequency details is noticeable.

[Ogopogo]

^what about live tweaking? Is there smoothing incorporated there? That would add latency, right? You would need a hi res protocol like OSC to do it live without latency, right?

[jeffh]

^what about live tweaking? Is there smoothing incorporated there? That would add latency, right?

Almost all plugins implement this on pretty much any knob you would be turning (ie: filter frequency knob, but probably not the oscillator type drop-down, etc...). Otherwise, moving knobs and sliders would sound terrible. Host automation often bypasses some of those mechanisms of the plugin, but it's basically doing the same thing on it's own.

You would need a hi res protocol like OSC to do it live without latency, right?

OSC sucks

The amount of latency is far below the threshold of what you could notice. It's not like soundcard latency where there is X number of milliseconds between input event and output audio, the internal knob value starts changing immediately, it just doesn't reach it's final destination value until a few milliseconds after you stop turning the knob.

[Ogopogo]

Cool, thanks for the info.

[dayjob]

is that even possible? i guess it would have to convert the midi to something else after it's recorded? midi is midi right??? so midi can't magically become something w/more resolution it already has unless the "convert after recording" option is there.. or something similar?? right?

good question though... it'd be nice to know...

It's very possible, all "hi resolution" automation works that way... They're not storing one-automation-point per sample, they're storing a list of points and drawing extra points in-between the points... Some apps either choose not to smooth CC values, or else just do it badly, but automation isn't like audio where tiny loss of hi frequency details is noticeable.

oh duh. yeah.. seems totally obvious now. thanks.

[ThomasHelzle]

1.automation renaming possible?
2.bouncing in place destructive and deleting the MIDI?
3.if automating a parameter with a controler, is the automation step size 128 steps(MIDI) or is it sill high resolution?
4.is there a automation standard value, to which bitwig snaps if you are close to it with a automation breakpoint?
5.realtime EQ spectrogram?
6.do all kind of automation follows clips with editing like deleting moving, duplicating?

1. I don't think so - but the naming is well done: Each name consists of a.) the device it's for and b.) the name of the controller. So you get "Mixer Volume", "FM-4 AEG Attack", "EQ-5 Freq 1".

2. Yes, although all instruments and effects are kept in tact.
I guess it's easy enough to copy the track(CTRL-D), bounce in place there (CTRL-B), and then do with the resulting audio whatever you want while keeping the original as a backup?

3. As others have said, no software can automagically create high res data from 128 steps of Midi, but of course the recorded automation-points are interpolated between, so you don't get hard steps. I don't know if there is temporal smoothing going on in realtime.

I just tried it out with my BCF2000. There is actually point reduction going on: While I was recording automation with one of the faders, a lot of points were generated and visible, but when I stopped recording, only a fraction of the points were remaining. Visually I'd say it's accurate enough for me with the least amount of points possible. ATM there are no thinning options but I guess that will become a FR soon enough.
Between the points the values are interpolated linearly.

On automation playback, Bitwig Studio has the BCF2000 move the smoothest I've ever seen (if you have one, you know how "rattly" it can be).

4. I don't understand the question.

5. You mean in the background of the curves like in Live 9? No, not that I can find it. Would be a nice one though.

6. Yes, if you want. There's a button in the transport bar to lock and unlock automation to clips. I don't know what you mean with "all kinds of automation" though.



Some more stuff I learned about Automation recently:

You can select Automation points and move them with the cursor keys left-right and up-down. If you hold Shift, it goes in small steps.

The value of the selected point is shown in the Inspector as Position and Value - both fields can be dragged to adjust.

If you have multiple points selected, the Inspector shows the average value.
In this case, you also get the nice "Mean", "Spread" and "Chaos" settings to either randomize or smooth out the values as shown in the modulation video.

The Absolute, Additive and Multiplicative Curves are actually independent of each other and can be all used at the same time to form the end result. This is totally awesome and solves some of the problems one often has to deal with:
- You have your (normal absolute) Automation all recorded and set up, it's quite involved and accurate but now you need to fade it in and out in some places and reduce the result a bit. Just create a Multiplicative Curve and create your fade there - it acts like a curve between 0 and 1 multiplied with the absolute values you recorded: Where it's zero, the result will be zero and where it's 100%, your original curve will be left untouched (multiplying with 1.0) with all the values in between smoothly interpolating.
- The additive curve has values between +50% and -50%, so it's easy to offset your original curve.
Those changes are non-destructive towards the original absolute curve you have recorded or edited and can be changed and undone at any time.

The visualization in the timeline is also rather clever: your original (Absolute) curve is shown as the created points with lines in between.
When there is no additive or multiplicative curve, the lower part of the curve is fully filled with blue.
If you have other curves modifying the result, the lines and points stay the same, but the blue filled part shows the end result which may be higher or lower than the original curve.
Very clever and visually clear.

Cheers,

Tom

[Cyoon]

Hey Thomas,

maybe you just answered this in your post but do you mean it like this?

logic: with smooth curves




or like cubase: where you need to draw a curve with lots of points?




that would be interesting to know.

thanks

[ThomasHelzle]

That was answered before.

Bitwig has no bezier curves as in the logic example, but you can drag the lines between points up and down with ALT to make them into curves bending up or down.

Cheers,

Tom

[Cyoon]

Ok cool, thx!

[garyboozy]

Also, Alt-click-dragging an automation node creates S-curves

[ThomasHelzle]

Also, Alt-click-dragging an automation node creates S-curves

Real smooth S-curves I wasn't able to create yet, but yes, if you ALT-drag on a point the lines on both sides are curved at the same time.

Cheers,

Tom