DUNE 2 is out now!!

[Dasheesh]

So you can't load 3 instances and use the same oscillator as modulator on each instance. Got it.

[ENV1]

I dont think too many people would actually use 8 layers/parts for one and the same sound, except perhaps for sounds that continue to evolve and change over a long period of time.

The way i see it that many parts are best used to make keysplit and/or velosplit Combis/Multis/Performances, the best classic examples of this would be KORG M1 and WS and workstations in general.

[Cinebient]

So you can't load 3 instances and use the same oscillator as modulator on each instance. Got it.

No, you don´t get it at all
Maybe you don´t know how a modular synth works so it makes no sense for you...which is fine of course.
What you described is not nearly the same.

[Dasheesh]

So you can't load 3 instances and use the same oscillator as modulator on each instance. Got it.

No, you don´t get it at all
Maybe you don´t know how a modular synth works so it makes no sense for you...which is fine of course.
What you described is not nearly the same.

That’s what I use Bazille for. And ace. and synth master. And have owned a room full of analog for. That only works for single layer patches. If you need more layers you load up more tracks . But, maybe you don’t understand how a modular works.

[Dasheesh]

It really doesn’t Matter what we want anyway. Sounds like synapse has it half done, at least conceptually.

[AnX]

Stick with Synth1.

[Cinebient]

So you can't load 3 instances and use the same oscillator as modulator on each instance. Got it.

No, you don´t get it at all
Maybe you don´t know how a modular synth works so it makes no sense for you...which is fine of course.
What you described is not nearly the same.

That’s what I use Bazille for. And ace. and synth master. And have owned a room full of analog for. That only works for single layer patches. If you need more layers you load up more tracks . But, maybe you don’t understand how a modular works.

It seems you live to far in the past.
But at least we see that we never will get all the things we would like to have in a synth.
Could we agree here and let it go? However, i wish you a nice weekend.
Life is too short....

[AnX]

.

I agree Dune2 is useful for those hyper digital, uber clean sounds that I don't get from many pieces of kit. That's why it's in my rack, exactly for those hyper digital uber clean sounds. That is what DUNE2 is for, but if you are ADDING useful features, why not fatter filter shapes and such? especially the filter affects section are thin and need updating. That is the biggest area of need IMO and would be a much better use of CPU.

.

I must be doing something wrong. I use it for fat analogue bass sounds and lush pads. Maybe i should tell Synapse they have a bug.

[Arksun]

What I said was, There is no reason to have more then 4 layers. No one has used more then 4 parts for any multi in the history of synthesis and it's completely unnecessary in today's DAW digital environment, when really all you NEED is one, and more then 4 winds up being a giant reverb wash, but it exists BECAUSE of the preset designers. Which is the same thing Synapse just said to you, but you didn't want to hear it from me.

All you really need is 1 layer?!?! I'm sorry but that is complete and utter nonsense. If you think you're speaking for most producers out there you are greatly mistaken, or blinded by an incredibly narrow field of music taste and production, or simply don't understand what it takes to create a lot of specific sounds and think its just about piling on tons of unisons together to create a mush.

Just to give a really basic Dune 2 example, say a lead sound. Because Dune 2 has just 1 filter per layer, lets say you want a one-shot attack to the sound to give it a natural sounding attack, but you need to high pass it to remove low end grunge from the waveshape. Then the 2nd layer you want this snappy clean attack to the sound so you use one of the clean filters with more saw like waveforms. Then the 3rd layer is like your main body of the sound using a fatter TR or XP filter type. Straight away 3 layers used, boom. Or an Arp preset, where you have one layer is sustained long notes filtering slowing in and out, another layer the main melody, and a third layer much slower melody with the modwheel changing the elements volume/filter points. Like this for example:

http://arksun-sound.com/music/Dune2_multilayer_arp.mp3

If Synapse does all this without lowering the quality of the sound I will be impressed and have no bitch though. Carry on.

Why on earth would they choose to use inferior algorithms in their next synth?!? Honestly this along with calling Dune 2 hyper digital thin sounding when its one of the warmest fattest sounding digital synths there is, I'm starting to think you're just trolling at this point.

[Richard_Synapse]

Just to give a really basic Dune 2 example, say a lead sound. Because Dune 2 has just 1 filter per layer, lets say you want a one-shot attack to the sound to give it a natural sounding attack, but you need to high pass it to remove low end grunge from the waveshape. Then the 2nd layer you want this snappy clean attack to the sound so you use one of the clean filters with more saw like waveforms. Then the 3rd layer is like your main body of the sound using a fatter TR or XP filter type. Straight away 3 layers used, boom.

Yep. For kick sounds multiple layers are essential as well. One layer with a sine-ish oscillator to shape the body of the kick, and at least one more layer to synthesize a good attack transient.

RIchard

[AstroCastro]

What I said was, There is no reason to have more then 4 layers. No one has used more then 4 parts for any multi in the history of synthesis and it's completely unnecessary in today's DAW digital environment, when really all you NEED is one, and more then 4 winds up being a giant reverb wash, but it exists BECAUSE of the preset designers. Which is the same thing Synapse just said to you, but you didn't want to hear it from me.

All you really need is 1 layer?!?! I'm sorry but that is complete and utter nonsense. If you think you're speaking for most producers out there you are greatly mistaken, or blinded by an incredibly narrow field of music taste and production, or simply don't understand what it takes to create a lot of specific sounds and think its just about piling on tons of unisons together to create a mush.

It's not a nonsense for FL Studio users because Layer exists in FL Studio for the last 11 years and later on Patcher has been added. Maybe it's just me, but I somehow feel that Dasheesh is a FL Studio user.

Basically, you insert synths, insert Layer, you assign synths to Layer and synths act like one synth and you can assign them to different octaves and you can assign custom root notes so that synth which is assigned to C2-C4 octave can play C5-C6 notes in Layer's piano roll, etc. Your own Korg M1, but one million of times more powerful because you can combine anything, synths and samplers to act like one synth and you can keep on adding stuff until your CPU explodes.
It's not just about working with synths, but having Layer proved to be crucial for me while doing orchestral stuff and by assigning instruments to their octaves and working in just in one piano roll instead of going in and out through different piano rolls and patterns/clips. It speeds up your workflow tremendously, similar to having multi patches in Kontakt or more precisely patches in Symphobia.

From my point of view, layers in synths mean nothing because I can already combine them easily and them acting like one synth by using Layer or Patcher in FL Studio. I can insert 3 Dune2's, 5 Dune1's, 10 Sylenths if I want to and to work with all of them as it's one synth and of course each synth is still independent, it can can have its own mixer track and you can still work in its piano roll separately (when using Layer, Patcher is different).
This is the main reason why Parawave's Rapid was one big "meh" for me with its 8 layers, but for people with DAW's that don't have Layer nor Patcher, having 8 layers is awesome. It raises the value of synth, it brings in complexity in sound design while in reality if everyone had natively in their DAW's things like Layer and Patcher like FL Studio users have them, people would think differently about them, there's no doubt about that.

[Saukar30]

What I said was, There is no reason to have more then 4 layers. No one has used more then 4 parts for any multi in the history of synthesis and it's completely unnecessary in today's DAW digital environment, when really all you NEED is one, and more then 4 winds up being a giant reverb wash, but it exists BECAUSE of the preset designers. Which is the same thing Synapse just said to you, but you didn't want to hear it from me.

All you really need is 1 layer?!?! I'm sorry but that is complete and utter nonsense. If you think you're speaking for most producers out there you are greatly mistaken, or blinded by an incredibly narrow field of music taste and production, or simply don't understand what it takes to create a lot of specific sounds and think its just about piling on tons of unisons together to create a mush.

It's not a nonsense for FL Studio users because Layer exists in FL Studio for the last 11 years and later on Patcher has been added. Maybe it's just me, but I somehow feel that Dasheesh is a FL Studio user.

Basically, you insert synths, insert Layer, you assign synths to Layer and synths act like one synth and you can assign them to different octaves and you can assign custom root notes so that synth which is assigned to C2-C4 octave can play C5-C6 notes in Layer's piano roll, etc. Your own Korg M1, but one million of times more powerful because you can combine anything, synths and samplers to act like one synth and you can keep on adding stuff until your CPU explodes.
It's not just about working with synths, but having Layer proved to be crucial for me while doing orchestral stuff and by assigning instruments to their octaves and working in just in one piano roll instead of going in and out through different piano rolls and patterns/clips. It speeds up your workflow tremendously, similar to having multi patches in Kontakt or more precisely patches in Symphobia.

From my point of view, layers in synths mean nothing because I can already combine them easily and them acting like one synth by using Layer or Patcher in FL Studio. I can insert 3 Dune2's, 5 Dune1's, 10 Sylenths if I want to and to work with all of them as it's one synth and of course each synth is still independent, it can can have its own mixer track and you can still work in its piano roll separately (when using Layer, Patcher is different).
This is the main reason why Parawave's Rapid was one big "meh" for me with its 8 layers, but for people with DAW's that don't have Layer nor Patcher, having 8 layers is awesome. It raises the value of synth, it brings in complexity in sound design while in reality if everyone had natively in their DAW's things like Layer and Patcher like FL Studio users have them, people would think differently about them, there's no doubt about that.

I have FLStudio & I get where you & Daheesh are coming from. The thing about Dune (Lush or Rapid for that matter) is that the 8 layers are for people who want to keep a continuous workflow going.

Say for instance, I can stack anything I want in FL using Layers & have all kinds of versatility. But what If you don't wan to work with 2 different methodologies for a synth. I could damn well use, Sylenth & Serum in a nice big patch with different textures, but for some people that breaks up the workflow. Mostly because they don't look alike as far as the GUI, they work differently, with a different batch of effects & behave differently. For some versatility in 1 synth is more important than the ability to get all synths together in a rubber band & call it a day. Some people work best with making layers within the same framework.

This is not to knock anybody's method. I just understand both sides. I don't think either is unnecessary. I think it's great that we are at a time where people from all over the world can obtain musical instruments that fit their workflow individually & have awesome sounds as well.

[Arksun]

From my point of view, layers in synths mean nothing because I can already combine them easily and them acting like one synth by using Layer or Patcher in FL Studio. I can insert 3 Dune2's, 5 Dune1's, 10 Sylenths if I want to and to work with all of them as it's one synth and of course each synth is still independent, it can can have its own mixer track and you can still work in its piano roll separately (when using Layer, Patcher is different).

Still, using just one synth with inbuilt layers is going to be far quicker and better workflow than having to run 3 separate versions of the same synth, dealing with 3 different GUI's on screen. And as has already been said before, doesn't mean the synth ends up using more cpu because it has this option for more layers. Given the zero cpu impact and negligible impact on GUI space versus having to deal with multiple instances, there is absolutely no reason to take the backwards step of restricting the amount of oscillators, envs, filters etc that the synth can be capable of, none, zero. If people want to have multiple instances to run different third party insert fx or sends on individual aspects of the whole sound then fine! But don't force people to only have this way to work when constructing sounds in their favourite synth.

[kokotte]

don't forget that :
in Dune2, the mod matrix give you an instant and easy access to layers value offset (voice number).
you can create some awesome phaser effect, chord, unison,additive synthesis....good luck to do it in a daw.
you should see the Mark wt additive synthesis technic or think layers, like additive synthesis.

[Richard_Synapse]

For sound design it is really indispensable, that is the main point of having layers. When creating just a single sound for one specific project without the intention of ever using it again or sharing with others, then stacking synths in the DAW is perfectly fine too, of course.

Richard