The "I don't get it" or your 3 overrated synths thread

[Caleb]

Ah I see.
Well these were purchased some time ago when there weren't that many VSTi and the praises of what was out there were sung quite strongly in magazines etc...

At the time I think I was buying on reviews rather than my own experience.

Regards
Caleb

[Topiness]

Listen to these then... this is what physical modeling can do

http://www.geocities.com/tonyostinato/m ... tonyo2.mp3

http://www.soundfonts.it/store/MilesTone_Stella.mp3

http://www.gregjazz.com/upload/milesjazz.mp3

http://www.soundfonts.it/store/sax_model_20.mp3

Couldn't download the first. Second and fourth are quite good. Third sounds a bit like FM.

But weren't these probably all done with a breath controller? I know PM can make good sounds, but it shouldn't need anything other than a keyboard.

EDIT: tried miles'Tone and sax-o-phunk (2 and 4 above, i think) and with a midi effect or two they'll be pretty good. Thanks for the links.

[grymmjack]

anyway please enlighten me some more shamann. thanks!

The main difference with Vaz and Bidule from Reaktor for me is ...

thanks shamann.

[rich_h]

But weren't these probably all done with a breath controller? I know PM can make good sounds, but it shouldn't need anything other than a keyboard.

I'd have to disagree strongly with that - if you're going to model a wind instrument there's no way you can play a simulation adequately from a keyboard alone, given the way such instruments are played.

Embouchre (mouth shape), vibrato speed, vibrato amount are just three that spring to mind that a wind player can (and will!) vary whilst playing a single note, so that's three continuous controllers required already to give a realistic response. The vibrato could easily be controlled from an XY controller, but that still leaves a controller for embouchre.

[DevonB]

But weren't these probably all done with a breath controller? I know PM can make good sounds, but it shouldn't need anything other than a keyboard.

I'd have to disagree strongly with that - if you're going to model a wind instrument there's no way you can play a simulation adequately from a keyboard alone, given the way such instruments are played.

Embouchre (mouth shape), vibrato speed, vibrato amount are just three that spring to mind that a wind player can (and will!) vary whilst playing a single note, so that's three continuous controllers required already to give a realistic response. The vibrato could easily be controlled from an XY controller, but that still leaves a controller for embouchre.

Agree with Rich. I have hte VL board for my Yamaha Motif. Without a breath controller, it's just lacking. I have aftertouch, and it helps and sounds more realistic than all the samples I've used because of the dynamic control, but still, I need more controller data input to really make these PM sounds shine.

Devon

[spaceman]

1) everything apart from vaz mod
2) everything apart from zebra2
3) a mix of the above

[waveriderarts]

Interesting thread. I do not have a lot of money to spend, so I do not buy anything fast (or at all!!)... so some things I whished to own made it on your list... Being often on kvr, I am aware that some synths that are popular here do not deliver in the sonic department in my opinion. Some really are fads that have no substance, I am usually patient enough to being able to spot them while demoing them.... fortunately I do not have many regrets. I use free synths mostly but I bought a couple of affordable ones. A lot of demo sessions left me wondering how come this or that synth is popular at kvr.... eh that is marketing, and hearing is really subjective...

a lot of stuff to me is fluff I can spot early on -I do not even demo them (hearing the mp3s was enough). Like some of NI's stuff, almost always overpriced, and some do not even deliver... but they sure make it look good.... it is tempting... but again that is marketing, not music.

Then they are some kvr favorites that everybody lists as their favorite synths. kvr is full of newbies, do not factor popularity here with quality. The Superwave stuff and Vanguard comes to mind.... wusikstation leaves me sitting on the fence... (I do own V1...)

Some stuff I own and I think is overrated:

ImpOscar
-like other said, lovely sounds but can't seem to fit right on any track... I used to play it's leads but after a long time trying I decided it sucks!!! maybe I will try again for basses...

DK+
-some bad programming here and there, lacks features for correct velocity layering, could be professionnaly upgraded...

lukily I cannot think of much else I paid for that I won't use.


Stuff I demoed but was surprised by the lack of appeal:
Cameleon 5000
-I read so may people raving about it, clean sound but leaves me cold.
AudioRealism Bass Line Pro
-that could have been the ideal vst for me but its sound sucks, I am still sold on the gui and functions, if only it sounded like a roland SH synth.....
Blue, Albino, Octopus, Spectra
-some are really bad, others ok but just too expensive
Guru
-MPC killer???? I haven't found any use for it... complicated interface for doing what I do in my sequencer
IK multimedia
sounds good but horribly expensive, at that price I start to look for used hardware...!



And if anyone do not use their Reaktor or Absynth license, I accept donations!!!!!! or extended lends...

[Kebmaster]

Superwave, Albino, Vanguard, VStation. Why do so many people swear by these??? Lets be grateful that the VSTi world has moved on!!!!!

[DrGonzo]

Am i the only one thinking Blue and Albino sound very dull ?
I've read tons of ppl saying they love them, and i reckon they must make for easy mixes, but there is no ear candy in there IMO... ?

This threat is the first that woke me up for a year-long lurking in the shadows. Great threat. Bloody constructive as well.

Until a few days ago I would put Albino on the top of my list, but no... it IS actually a good synth. It's just a problem that there are way too many uninspiring patches. Never liked Rob Papens patches. Instant yawn-factor. On the Virus as well. But if you start tweaking the presets... not bad at all.

Reaktor also suffers from this phenomena. Lots of synths are either too weird or too plain. But there are some really cool stuff. Such as the Photon synth. The Photek patches are dull as crap, but the other patches are truly great.

1) Symptohm. Utterly cool idea. Unfortunately it just doesn't lift anyware.

2) The White Noise stuff: Zero Vector and Doppelmangler. Just plain uninspiring. Dead.

3) ...and of course Zebra 2. If there is a such thing as a looser in this thread, it got to be Zebra. But I can't understand what the fuss is about.

[Tronam]

Someone really hit the nail on the head earlier with regards to complex synths like Zebra 2. Just because there are a million features doesn't mean that you have to feel compelled to use them all. When the possibilites are that vast, I think a lot of people get carried away and invariably end up in outer space before too long. When you look at a lot of the included sound banks, many of the patches look like as though the author was trying to use every kind of oscillator, filter, LFO, fx and envelope type simply because they could and not because they were trying to produce a musical sound. There's this tendency to want to create 1-finger wonder patches instead of something someone might actually want to use in a tune. Not everyone composes ambient space music.

[ianweb123]

... A good measure of the ultimate complexity of a synth is to put it in Chainer and use the randomise patch feature.. Just see how many useful patches to bezerk ones that you get as a percentage.

[pascual]

For me it's all those FM synths.
They are always seen as the cat's pijamas, or Tarzans mother; but no matter how much i try to like them they all sound like cheap background music for some second rate beauty pagent.
It's that glassy cheesiness that i really can't stand! I hate Fm e-pianos, and i loath any fm bell sounds. Add to that the complicated nature of programming them and forget it!

I don't want no Sytrus, i don't want no FM 7 or 8 or 9 and you can also keep toxic.

[spaceman]

Someone really hit the nail on the head earlier with regards to complex synths like Zebra 2. Just because there are a million features doesn't mean that you have to feel compelled to use them all. When the possibilites are that vast, I think a lot of people get carried away and invariably end up in outer space before too long. When you look at a lot of the included sound banks, many of the patches look like as though the author was trying to use every kind of oscillator, filter, LFO, fx and envelope type simply because they could and not because they were trying to produce a musical sound. There's this tendency to want to create 1-finger wonder patches instead of something someone might actually want to use in a tune. Not everyone composes ambient space music.

you can make it as complex or as simple as you want.. and no matter how you look at it, a zebra patch with just one oscillator and a filter can blow your head off. It just takes some basic programming skills and a few minutes of your time

this thread seems to be a default presets comparison instead of a synth comparison

[Debutante]

Synth Sound Module-ing is the only thing I really don't get. Everything else is up to taste so knock yourself out. Organic sounds from drums and other real instruments is OK, but using samples for synthesized sounds is something that I've never understood. What's the point of having synthesizers at all?

The sounds in them are good, but going through them to look for what you CAN use, when you have able VSTi right next to them beats the shit out of me... and then PAYING for sounds that you could/should learn to make yourself ... It takes a while, but I think it's worth learning. I can almost understand if it's a particular hardware synth or something like that, but even then, surely there can be something else done with everything available.

[John Vulich]

this thread seems to be a default presets comparison instead of a synth comparison

Yeah, I got the same exact feeling myself.

f**king "preset whores".. the lot of them!