Get off my lawn!

[hibidy]

nobody is asking you to pick sides. Anyways, it's been fun, allow me to kindly bow out

[ntom]

I know...I'm not even entirely sure what the arguement is about. So, I don't even know which side I would take...probably take my side. Is that a side?

[robogone]

Taking a swipe at me WILL earn you points with your posse, but the people who actually read the comments understand the context. Pretty obvious that I was dissin' the black keys far more than complimenting nickelcrack.

You need to start taking the paranoia pills if you think I'm taking "a swipe" at you in any way. I don't agree with what you said or the implied opposite - at all - and I told you and think I made my point clearly. If anyone was taking a swipe I think it was you when you felt the need to suggest that I need someone to vindicate my opinions for me or when you patronized me by suggesting that I didn't understand the context.

You really need to stop acting the victim then maybe you'll realize that every time one of this imaginary "possee" says something it's not directed at you as a personal insult.

[justin3am]

I wasn't necessarily offended by his response to me, and I know you love me, but sorry, friend, I'm not backing your fight up. I was just curious what the thoughts are on those who can't play instruments.

I'd argue that anyone *can* play an instrument. Whether an individual plays an instrument *well* is a different debate and in my mind that topic is totally subjective.

I'd say that if you are making music, it's likely that you are playing an instrument (whether that instrument is a guitar, your mouth, a computer, some pots and pans turned upside down). If you enjoy playing with your instruments, who cares if people think you play it well or not?

...The answer to that question is probably, most musicians.

[robogone]

I wasn't necessarily offended by his response to me, and I know you love me, but sorry, friend, I'm not backing your fight up. I was just curious what the thoughts are on those who can't play instruments.

I'd argue that anyone *can* play an instrument. Whether an individual plays an instrument *well* is a different debate and in my mind that topic is totally subjective.

I'd say that if you are making music, it's likely that you are playing an instrument (whether that instrument is a guitar, your mouth, a computer, some pots and pans turned upside down). If you enjoy playing with your instruments, who cares if people think you play it well or not?

...The answer to that question is probably, most musicians.

Yep, that pretty much covers my point.

I just don't attach any value to the the perceived ability to play an instrument or not as kicking a guitar around the floor while plugged into a bunch of effects pedals is just as valid a way of making music as spending 50 years of your life trying to perfect playing the most complex pieces ever written.

[Chuck E. Jesus]

is it "gang up on hibidy" time again? i must not be getting my posse memos

[robogone]

is it "gang up on hibidy" time again? i must not be getting my posse memos

[ntom]

...The answer to that question is probably, most musicians.

My dad was one of the first to initially project his...disapproval (though he never outwardly said he disapproved of it). He always called it, "That weirdo music". I kept telling him there is a HUGE electronic market...probably too huge that my music will never get heard - that point aside though. Anyways, when I moved in, he got to see the time and effort and the attention I give to each song, regardless if it's "weirdo music".
In fact, now he is incredbly happy to have me around because he has every intention of building a studio and he wants me to be the producer of his music because he realizes I know my way around modern (software) workstations whereas he grew up using hardware workstations - which he still uses them in his band today, and this equipment is from mid 90's.

[herodotus]

I just don't attach any value to the the perceived ability to play an instrument or not

But some other people do think it's important. And not all of them are idiots. There are traditions throughout the world, from Bali to Ireland to Cuba to India, in addition to the well-known West European and American traditions of 'Classical' and Jazz, where playing ability is highly respected. Are all of these people full of shit?

kicking a guitar around the floor while plugged into a bunch of effects pedals is just as valid a way of making music as spending 50 years of your life trying to perfect playing the most complex pieces ever written.

I don't disagree in theory. I don't think that any approach to music is inherently 'invalid', as the human imagination is endless.

But all of the disrespect that I see toward traditional musicians (of which I am one) by people who like to 'kick guitars around the floor' so to speak, tends to make me feel like a bit of a chump for trying to be tolerant and understanding of the 'guitar-kicker' school of musicians.

This is music people, not politics. Can't we all just get along?

[trimph1]

I do not think, or feel for that matter, that traditional (or is it classically trained?) musicians are sh*t. Really, what would make anyone be full of sh*t?

Rather, let us say that there are a few more avenues of learning how to play something that does not rely on multi-years of learning. And, regardless of how they learn as long as they do what they love is all that matters.

[robogone]

I just don't attach any value to the the perceived ability to play an instrument or not

But some other people do think it's important. And not all of them are idiots. There are traditions throughout the world, from Bali to Ireland to Cuba to India, in addition to the well-known West European and American traditions of 'Classical' and Jazz, where playing ability is highly respected. Are all of these people full of shit?

As you're quoting me I assume you're asking those questions in response to that statement, so I'm a little confused as I neither called anyone an idiot or said that they're full of shit

I actually said I don't attach importance to whether they can play or not i.e. both cases are valid as far as being a musician is concerned. Prompted by hearing the oft quoted "at least they can play their instruments"

Who cares? If there's an audience for it does it really matter how much technical ability was involved? I think I sit on both sides of the fence - there are some instruments I've put a lot of effort into learning and wish I could play a lot better, but on the other hand I have a huge appreciation for unconventional approaches to making music.

My point was that really it doesn't matter and it achieves nothing if we judge those with a restrictive view of how others should make music

[vespers75]

I don't disagree in theory. I don't think that any approach to music is inherently 'invalid', as the human imagination is endless.

But all of the disrespect that I see toward traditional musicians (of which I am one) by people who like to 'kick guitars around the floor' so to speak, tends to make me feel like a bit of a chump for trying to be tolerant and understanding of the 'guitar-kicker' school of musicians.

Erm, where is "all of the disrespect towards traditional musicians" by the "guitar-kicker" types that you're speaking of?

That you said 'trying to be tolerant and understanding of the guitar-kicker' musicians makes it sound as if you actually feel you're above those experimental types....despite claiming you agree that there isn't an invalid approach to music. I'm from both "schools" myself...and I sometimes have trouble tolerating all of you f**kers.

[tapper mike]

'Good fences make good neighbours'

[vurt]

This is music people, not politics. Can't we all just get along?

except artists who get radio play?


i respect anyone who does what they do with a passion for it. ive done seven years uni study in varous aspects of music/sound art, not to mention ive been involved in sound art of one kind or another for around 30 years now (im just 38 2 weeks ago) i enjoy music from the likes of jandek and i enjoy cecil taylor and i enjoy some bach pieces and i enjoy some kylie and i enjoy napalm death...
i could go on, but i think my drift is quite gettable as it stands

remember kids though, if you are going to kick a guitar, make sure its your own

[trimph1]

'Good fences make good neighbours'