Reaper - What's the catch?

[h2ogun99]

Turning back to Reaper, when my band plays live we use backing tracks. One thing I would love to do is have a track for my vocals to sing through. Once FX are added, could they be automated when needed during the song? See any issues with that? I tried that a while back during a practice with Logic, but the mic was way to hot, and feedback shut that idea down real quick. Would love to open the book on that again. (not that that was Logics doing)

I think with MIDI Learn this should be possible. But you would need a controller during the live event to assign the MIDI CC to the effect parameters.

However, for things like this, wouldn't be an audio software like Usine be more suitable? I quote from the Usine homepage: "Usine is a universal audio software especially designed for live or studio utilization".

Hmmmmm, let me look into that.

Ah, I see... Windows only it looks like. Mac is what we work from now. Still, a nice thing to know about, and possibly worth having a little dedicated lappy for in the future. Thanks!

[sellyoursoul]

Turning back to Reaper, when my band plays live we use backing tracks. One thing I would love to do is have a track for my vocals to sing through. Once FX are added, could they be automated when needed during the song? See any issues with that? I tried that a while back during a practice with Logic, but the mic was way to hot, and feedback shut that idea down real quick. Would love to open the book on that again. (not that that was Logics doing)

I would think that you could do that with any daw, but you might take a couple of things into consideration: latency and parameter 'zippering' for some plugins.

[Andywanders]

Reaper's MIDI completely sucks.

Too harsh. It's functional and works. Sure it leaves some features to be desired, but "completely sucks" is not a correct quantifier here, which shows how biased you are.

Sorry if you found that too harsh, it was not directed at you or any Reaper user, it's just my opinion based on my experience with both programmes.

For sure, Reaper is indeed a very good programme for audio and has some excellent features.

And yes, Reaper's MIDI "works" and for basic stuff it is functional. But it's also cumbersome and painfully slow, especially when compared to DAWs as sophisticated as Logic.

As far back as the early 90s, I ran Logic on an Atari in my studio and thanks to it's superb MIDI, I was able to automate just about every piece of hardware I owned - everything that had a MIDI port that is.

It didn't take me long to get to grips with the environment, the transform functions and setting up mixers/faders etc for just about any hardware that supported sysex.

Then there's the actual MIDI editing itself... The way the various editors can be linked and customised... The non-destructive quantise and groove functions... Controller editing... Note/event selection... The list goes on.

Logic's MIDI is very deep, but also very fast to learn... It's erm... 'logical'.

That was TWENTY YEARS AGO and Reaper at version 4 doesn't even come close, not by a long shot.

To make matters worse, it looks like Cockos aren't interested in developing Reaper's MIDI any further. This is borne out by the countless MIDI feature requests that have been ignored over the years (jut look at the Reaper forum and see for yourself).

The poster asked for replies from users of both Logic and Reaper and I fall into that camp. Though I'm not a Reaper owner, I do give it an extensive workout from time-to-time just to see how it's progressed, but the lack of MIDI development has prevented me from actually buying it.

Sorry to go on, but I felt the need to justify my original comment. I certainly didn't mean to offend any Reaper users (hey, we're all musos ), but for me, Reaper's MIDI really does suck... BIG TIME.


Again... No offence to anyone.

Peace

[hibidy]

I didn't take any offense, I do think that it sucks. But it's more because I think the devs COULD make it a lot better if they really wanted to. I sense a distinct tude about it like "nope, we're not going to" thing.

People want that probably more than anything (other than maybe ableton style audio)

[h2ogun99]

Again... No offence to anyone.

None taken at all. Very nice post and also sheds light into your past experience which is brings respect. I would fall into the "basic" category and envy the years and knowledge you earned. If you lived in San Diego I would kill for a nice long lesson. It is always nice to level-up on skills, and in this category I need it.

Thanks!

[DuX]

I didn't take any offense, I do think that it sucks. But it's more because I think the devs COULD make it a lot better if they really wanted to. I sense a distinct tude about it like "nope, we're not going to" thing.

People want that probably more than anything (other than maybe ableton style audio)

Exactly my thoughts on the subject. Sad face because it makes me sad, and I wouldn't trade Reaper's routing abilities, and ReaRoute [like Rewire], ReaMote [connect with another computer running this plugin and work as one], ReaInsert [using hardware as FX] for anything else. For audio work it just rocks. I make CD mastering in it, too, and it's great for that, too.

But I'm sooo yearning for simple things like groove quantise. It shouldn't be so hard to do, eh? Is it implemented yet? I couldn't find it the last time I looked for it... and I want to be able to load and customise grooves. Most of the other things regarding MIDI are OK with me. It works for me, but it took them soooo long to get here. I still have a few gripes with VSTi routing, though, but I kinda got used to it by now...

On the other hand, I often get to work with ProTools and Nuendo, and I must tell you that it makes me love Reaper even more. It's just easier to work with, especially when it comes to mixing. It might also be that I've been using Reaper so long that I can't appreciate ProTools or Nuendo any more. I don't know... I was a Cubase user since '91 to about 2001. Reaper and EnergyXT since then. EnergyXT1 for jotting MIDI projects in it first because it's just more inspiring for me than Reaper for MIDI, and it's got grooves and you can customise them!

Cheers!

[hibidy]

You do know that SWS extentions has "groove tool" right?

[DuX]

You do know that SWS extentions has "groove tool" right?

THANK YOU! I'll check it out. I'm not a fan of SWS since it clutters the already cluttered menus even more, but if I could get a decent groove tool with it... That would be fantastic!!! I was actually contemplating checking SWS extensions just the other day to see what it's all about. It was a long time ago since I last checked it.

I've got all these grooves from MPC to DMX... they make rhythms so much more danceable to.

Cheers!

Edit: wow, the swinging/grooving works rather well. I was able to import many swinging MIDI templates from EnergyXT quite easily. That's sooo great!

[gabebrunogarza1021]

Curious here, take a wild guess and tell me the % of serious Logic users out there that are using The Environment? Wondering if this is being used more that we know, or it is something few choose to jump into.
L

One for sure,
...for sure,
...for sure,
...for sure... as the echo fades

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF0BFEA642A3BE3D9

[LawrenceF]

... it looks like Cockos aren't interested in developing Reaper's MIDI any further.

I actually think they are interested but I also think they made some decisions in the basic design that aren't that easy to backtrack out of. Think about it, users have been asking to edit multiple clips together for like 3+ years now and you still can't do that, so it must not be an easy change or they probably would have done it already.

It may be the case that they're re-writing some of the root foundation, no way to know that though since they aren't saying.

It may be the case that it's too much work for too little reward and they won't do it at all. No clue.

[gabebrunogarza1021]

I actually think they are interested but I also think they made some decisions in the basic design that aren't that easy to backtrack out of. Think about it, users have been asking to edit multiple clips together for like 3+ years now and you still can't do that, so it must not be an easy change or they probably would have done it already.

It may be the case that they're re-writing some of the root foundation, no way to know that though since they aren't saying.

It may be the case that it's too much work for too little reward and they won't do it at all. No clue.

Not to rain on the Reaper parade and what I've shown with what you can do with The Enviroment in Logic, but with comments like this and guys like me (Logic users) seeing this, it seems it's not just the Reaper you'll be getting into but a Grim Reaper.

[V'ger]

Reaper's MIDI completely sucks.

it's also cumbersome and painfully slow, especially when compared to DAWs as sophisticated as Logic.

Totally wrong. Reaper's MIDI is in fact brilliant and I would bet the fastest and easiest there is to write with. Single-click-drag to enter note and length at the same time. Single-click only will enter note with last set length. Single-click-drag existing note to move it around or single-click to delete. All with the regular mouse cursor; no tools, menus or keyboard needed. Any faster or better?

Edit length by dragging the edges, velocity by dragging the middle with a key held down (unless it's just drawn in the velocity lane of course). Select multiple notes with a simple right-click drag, then mute, transpose etc the selection with single shortcut keys. Here's a showing some of it in action.

How many DAWs can do MIDI like that? Most would need tools to be selected or drop-down menus and what-not to be accessed. Many more steps, much more hassle. I don't know Logic but from tutorials on Youtube it looks like the usual tool-hell, yet that's held as the faster and less cumbersome way? I can only surmise people saying this are not really writing much MIDI.

And that's just writing MIDI. MIDI plugins is also extremely well supported. Stack any MIDI plugs on top of each other or even in between instruments, and change their order just like that, no problem. Here's an . Likely some would bug up in other DAWs and if they did work you'd be forced to create extra tracks and set routing to get it going, which is a hassle and will quickly mess up the project. You can imagine what it would be to change the order of those once set..

Reaper's MIDI is very good but it seems picking on that is rule no 1 for Reaper detractors, usually without much justification and based on lack of experience or knowledge. When pushed those who have both will list one or two niggles or features most won't ever use which is how it is with any DAW really.

[braj]

^^ definitely! I wish so many of Reaper's features were available in Studio One. I wanted to use it as a midi editor for S1 but when I run the midi into S1 via Rewire it sends a ton of velocity info. I wish we could drag and drop midi between hosts, that would be ideal.

EDIT: actually it sends the notes all broken up into tiny slices, so for a 1/6th note it sends 22 notes for example.

[Tricky-Loops]

^^ definitely! I wish so many of Reaper's features were available in Studio One. I wanted to use it as a midi editor for S1 but when I run the midi into S1 via Rewire it sends a ton of velocity info. I wish we could drag and drop midi between hosts, that would be ideal.

You should ask for ReaMIDI...

[Astromann]

Hi
I am an ex Logic user, I used it right from the C-Lab Creator/Notator days until about a year or so ago.
I used it for quite complex compositions that required a LOT OF midi data (matrix) and also automation etc...etc...quite commonly I did compostions that took a long time to complete because of all the layering etc..

I used the environment extensively too, in fact when it was still on the PC I wrote several environments for controlling all parameters incl reverb times, eq, all faders etc...on Yamamha digital mixers (earlier Pro Mix01 and later on the 01V around when I moved to the Mac)
The point I am trying to make is I did not just dabble a little in Logic, I pushed its boundaries, especially in midi (piano roll and controller data) and also in the environment

Are there drawbacks with Reaper?...well yes and no.
Yes if you want a completely set up DAW out of the box, something like Studio One, or Cubase...both of which are customizable, but basically you learn it like the programmers have laid it out generally and tweak them a bit.
Some people love that, and it works for them, thats great!

Its definitely not a drawback if you like to fine tune,refine and setup your app as you go so its completely customized to work the way you like to work.
And that is one of Reapers main strengths, but to others who like an out of the box laid out program...its a weakness.
However if you take a little time and learn how to setup the actions and multiple custom actions and assign them to your own icons...Reaper totally kicks ass and its very reliable.
Cheers