Bitwig VS Ableton

[pdxindy]

...
For your list... I would rather have native pitch correction than ARA2
Adding a plugin to multiple tracks would be a small beneficial workflow addition.
Some improvements to working with automation points would be welcome

The rest doesn't matter to me.

....

This list was basically just some examples... replace it with whatever is of interest for you...

I personally find Bitwig as a single DAW hugely overpowered in terms of sound design and hugely underpowered when it comes to compose, edit midi in the piano roll, arrange, mix and manipulate arrangements and I would be very happy to see some updates with having the focus more on these types of improvements than the next double chorus or grid module...

That's the thing... you have a particular set of concepts based on experience with other DAW's that you call DAW functionality. We think about it very differently.

For example, if I want to use a Bitwig instrument and automate say cutoff value for specific notes that are overlapping other notes, this is easy and can fluidly be changed at any time.

In other DAW's I would have to use multiple tracks with multiple instances of the same instrument and split midi clips onto those different tracks to avoid overlapping notes during the time I want to change cutoff and then draw an automation curve for the cutoff.

That task is so much easier in Bitwig than other DAW's. But you lump that under sound design and so it is dismissed. I consider it DAW capability. And with 4.3, Bitwig started supporting CLAP plugins so that it can do the same sorts of things with CLAP plugins that support PolyMod as previously could only be done with Bitwig Instruments. From my perspective, this is one of the most innovative new DAW features in a long time.

Of course it is totally valid for you to want what you want. You want improvements to the classic DAW functions like piano roll and automation, etc. What Bitwig is doing is creating new approaches to doing the same tasks... like the example above which doesn't even need an automation curve.

[xbitz]

What is a true automation clip to you?

I was used to the automation in Logic, just one long linear overlay over another track. It was a pain to line up edits and keep everything synced. Drove me crazy as I was going far beyond simple fades.

Basically, they are the same as a MIDI clip, except containing automation data. Automation clips can be edited, duplicated, and moved, even to a different track.

I know Mulab has them and I believe Reaper and FLS have them. I think you can fake them as a separate MIDI track in Studio One, but are not as fun and flexible.

I believe in Bitwig, they can be bound to a clip, but are not separable from the clip--i.e. they may not be freely moved or copied. If I am wrong in this, then I may be officially a Bitwig convert. I just need to go rob a bank real quick...

but track automation can be converted into a region-based one in Logic
https://www.studio-interns.com/2019/12/ ... f-the-day/
in one step (and back)

even works between aliased clips

btw. clip aliasing is missing from both AL/Bitwig(dunno why) although this is the fifth most requested feature on https://bitwish.top/votes

[Trancit]

That's the thing... you have a particular set of concepts based on experience with other DAW's that you call DAW functionality. We think about it very differently.

For example, if I want to use a Bitwig instrument and automate say cutoff value for specific notes that are overlapping other notes, this is easy and can fluidly be changed at any time.

In other DAW's I would have to use multiple tracks with multiple instances of the same instrument and split midi clips onto those different tracks to avoid overlapping notes during the time I want to change cutoff and then draw an automation curve for the cutoff.

That task is so much easier in Bitwig than other DAW's. But you lump that under sound design and so it is dismissed. I consider it DAW capability. And with 4.3, Bitwig started supporting CLAP plugins so that it can do the same sorts of things with CLAP plugins that support PolyMod as previously could only be done with Bitwig Instruments. From my perspective, this is one of the most innovative new DAW features in a long time.

Of course it is totally valid for you to want what you want. You want improvements to the classic DAW functions like piano roll and automation, etc. What Bitwig is doing is creating new approaches to doing the same tasks... like the example above which doesn't even need an automation curve.

Interesting post... thx!

[SLiC]

Yup- Bitwig Piano roll just works different, but it is amazingly expressive and that what counts to many! Of course, it can be improved, but a suspect few have really mastered what it is already capable of- I am always learning with Bitwig!

[syntonica]

What is a true automation clip to you?

I was used to the automation in Logic, just one long linear overlay over another track. It was a pain to line up edits and keep everything synced. Drove me crazy as I was going far beyond simple fades.

Basically, they are the same as a MIDI clip, except containing automation data. Automation clips can be edited, duplicated, and moved, even to a different track.

I know Mulab has them and I believe Reaper and FLS have them. I think you can fake them as a separate MIDI track in Studio One, but are not as fun and flexible.

I believe in Bitwig, they can be bound to a clip, but are not separable from the clip--i.e. they may not be freely moved or copied. If I am wrong in this, then I may be officially a Bitwig convert. I just need to go rob a bank real quick...

but track automation can be converted into a region-based one in Logic
https://www.studio-interns.com/2019/12/ ... f-the-day/
in one step (and back)

even works between aliased clips

btw. clip aliasing is missing from both AL/Bitwig(dunno why) although this is the fifth most requested feature on https://bitwish.top/votes

Region-based automation is a little bit better, but still not as flexible as automation clips.

Clip aliasing is not a deal breaker. It's very rare I make a change in a clip that I need propagated across all clones. Normally, when I start arranging, i copy clips and then I edit them as needed for variation. But,yeah, there's no reason not to have that feature, especially if your shtick is clip-based to begin with.

[xbitz]

^^^ just relearning Logic and I was curious about it

[pdxindy]

I was used to the automation in Logic, just one long linear overlay over another track.

but track automation can be converted into a region-based one in Logic

And Midi Regions can be converted to Pattern Regions (and back)... and automation lanes in the pattern can have their own speed, number of steps, etc.

[a9k1tp]

I have always missed a proper MSEG modulator in Bitwig (Like in Serum, Vital or Phaseplant). Bitwig's modulation system is great for happy accidents and experimentation (Especially for a dumb person like me). In Reaper, Automation Clips functionality is very powerful, and I find it faster to get desired results than Bitwig's modulation system. Automation clips are like MSEG painted on arrange view.

[Lazarus451]

I still use Ableton Live because :

- 100 x more (good) tutorials online. For me it makes easier to follow if I like the music
- huge professional userbase (tried and tested by the biggest names)
- Simpler instrument is fantastic
- Core devices seems to be easier to use
- Max for Live (but don't use it that much to be honest)
- I'm used to it and it makes more sense to me (at the moment)
- Live has scales in piano roll. Very important for me

[Muziksculp]

Does 'LIVE' have a Video Track ?

Bitwig doesn't , you need to install an additional plugin for that. Kind of silly in 2022 not to have it in a DAW.

[sQeetz]

If Bitwig wasn't f'ed up on MacOS I would prefer it over Live.

[syntonica]

If Bitwig wasn't f'ed up on MacOS I would prefer it over Live.

How is it effed up? I'm in the process of demoing it for it's M1 support. It's going to be slow going--it's a very busy interface and not everything seems to work how I expect.

[sQeetz]

How is it effed up?

Only in Fullscreen. The mouse cursor changes to whatever is underneath it, no matter what.
I have contacted the guys at Bitwig, and they don't seem to care... so did I
Open a plugin and hover around.... the mouse cursor changes to whatever is beneath it.
I've made several videos about it just in case.....

[syntonica]

How is it effed up?

Only in Fullscreen. The mouse cursor changes to whatever is underneath it, no matter what.
I have contacted the guys at Bitwig, and they don't seem to care... so did I
Open a plugin and hover around.... the mouse cursor changes to whatever is beneath it.
I've made several videos about it just in case.....

Thanks. I never use full screen, so it won't bother me at all. But it's definitely a weird bug. I can't imagine it's Bitwig's fault, though, if the mouse cursor works properly otherwise. It sounds more like a macOS issue at first blush.

[sQeetz]

Thanks. I never use full screen, so it won't bother me at all. But it's definitely a weird bug. I can't imagine it's Bitwig's fault, though, if the mouse cursor works properly otherwise. It sounds more like a macOS issue at first blush.

I have Logic, Renoise, Live, Reason.... and none does what Bitwig is doing.. So my best guess, is that Bitwig has a bug. The developers as much as admitted it, but to them it's so small a fault that it does not need adressing. Bugs ME, though, a lot. So much that I prefer not to use it