Wavetable Blowout: Massive X vs Avenger vs Serum vs Icarus vs Pigments...

[pdxindy]

Pigments is my favourite for sound design and expression - it feels alive as a musical instrument. Massive X for overall power and sound quality probably surpasses it but it's less fun to play and do sound design on, preset management is terrible and at the moment NI seem to be behind on things like MPE support and expression (Partly I think because they keep trying to shoehorn synths into the Maschine environment which is just too limited for instruments).

Massive X is not just behind on MPE, it doesn't even support Poly AT, expression pedal or breath controller. No midi learn and you cannot automate parameters directly. Worst midi implementation of any recent synth. It's in the freakin stone age.

[aMUSEd]

Yeah I was talking about expression generally. Such a pity because it sounds good but instruments are meant for playing expressively (which is why Alchemy was always one of my favourite synths) and if they lack that ability they are more suited to mouse based musicians perhaps but not so much fun to play.

[pekbro]

I like Serum for it's editor and design, also I can load it's wavetables directly into my 1010 (SynthBox).

[Echoes in the Attic]

Pigments is my favourite for sound design and expression - it feels alive as a musical instrument. Massive X for overall power and sound quality probably surpasses it but it's less fun to play and do sound design on, preset management is terrible and at the moment NI seem to be behind on things like MPE support and expression (Partly I think because they keep trying to shoehorn synths into the Maschine environment which is just too limited for instruments).

Massive X is not just behind on MPE, it doesn't even support Poly AT, expression pedal or breath controller. No midi learn and you cannot automate parameters directly. Worst midi implementation of any recent synth. It's in the freakin stone age.

I could probably forgive most of that if it worked well on touch screens, since that's now how I do a lot of sound design. But nope, it also amazingly can't be used at all on touch screens because the parameters are too erratic. It's as if they went to great pains to make sure that none of the cool things of modern computer based music production could be used.

[JoeCat]

Though not strictly in the same category (but since Markus is here):

Does Icarus render Gladiator 3 somewhat redundant, or is there enough of a difference to justify looking at the older dude of the bunch? I know - demo - will do again (it's been a while), but with synths this big and complex it can be hard to get a feel for the real difference in sound and capabilities, as opposed to, say comparing Legend and Monark. A lot of times it depends on the patches that come with the synth. People who own both (and of course, the actual developer), have lived with them and have a better feel. I just know I've kinda liked what I've heard of Gladiator (and actually like it's busy-sci-fi interface), but wonder the Icarus overlap makes it redundant.

And I'm too lazy right now to spend a month demoing.

Also - don't need either; got Massive X and Pigments. But I'm itching to spend some of the money I've been saving not going out to eat. Realistically, I could probably get a hardware poly every month the way my adult kids milked me for dinner before the world ended.

[Spencer Maddox]

Pigments is my favourite for sound design and expression - it feels alive as a musical instrument. Massive X for overall power and sound quality probably surpasses it but it's less fun to play and do sound design on, preset management is terrible and at the moment NI seem to be behind on things like MPE support and expression (Partly I think because they keep trying to shoehorn synths into the Maschine environment which is just too limited for instruments).

Massive X is not just behind on MPE, it doesn't even support Poly AT, expression pedal or breath controller. No midi learn and you cannot automate parameters directly. Worst midi implementation of any recent synth. It's in the freakin stone age.

Native as a Company is behind on a lot of key stuff...
They still haven’t upgraded their products to VST3.
And I don’t think that’s a HUGE deal but I feel like as VST2 is now officially decommissioned the already snail-paced move to VST3 might move slightly faster. Heck even ableton has VST3 support finally
No MPE for any of the products, that of course is a bummer.
Most of their products minus the brand new ones don’t have High DPI, or Resizable interfaces. Still no resizable UI to their most essential (to me and I would think most people in this forum tbh) products they make in Kontakt and Reaktor...

Great products like Absynth, Rigs; FM8 and the original Massive are virtually Rotting. Likely to never see an update again and I wouldn’t be surprised if one of them, Probably absynth, is quietly put out of its misery the way of Pro-53.

But with Massive X. Their new fresh start... It’s so frustrating because it’s so Sonically good. It sounds so absolutely fantastic and I want to love it but every time I begin to open up to it weird glitches and workflow quirks push me back away. And like it was mentioned above the oversight of basic stuff:

If NI would drop a monster update that addressed a lot of stuff I would embrace the synth in a heartbeat with how good it sounds.

[pdxindy]

But with Massive X. Their new fresh start... It’s so frustrating because it’s so Sonically good. It sounds so absolutely fantastic and I want to love it but every time I begin to open up to it weird glitches and workflow quirks push me back away. And like it was mentioned above the oversight of basic stuff:

If NI would drop a monster update that addressed a lot of stuff I would embrace the synth in a heartbeat with how good it sounds.

Pretty much the same for me... There are plenty of synths that just don't speak to me and I never comment about them. I semi-regularly express my frustration with the various limitations of MX exactly because it is sonically excellent and I want to like it and use it.

[nIGhT-SoN]

The main advantage of Serum is the Rent-to-Own plan and Lifetime updates, besides one of the best interfaces. I can easily make any sound I want and the quality is top notch. All other synths from the the main page, for me at least, seems all over the place in term of usability. If I can't do what I want fast, that's a deal breaker for me.

[obogz]

[delted]

[vroteg]

Wavetable synths is so 2015

Yeah man. For the last 2 years I modulate dc offset at audio rate. For now I use LFO, but I think is so 2018. So this year I’ll start move speaker cone by hand. It’s 2020 guys, not 2015, stop using synths already, use your hands!

[Dallas_Cashin]

It can be hard to get a feel for the real difference in sound and capabilities, as opposed to, say comparing Legend and Monark. A lot of times it depends on the patches that come with the synth.

Trying to figure out sound and capabilities using factory patches makes about as much sense as trying to figure out the capabilities of guitarists by having them strum an open Em11...

Wavetable synths is so 2015

Yeah man. For the last 2 years I modulate dc offset at audio rate. For now I use LFO, but I think is so 2018. So this year I’ll start move speaker cone by hand. It’s 2020 guys, not 2015, stop using synths already, use your hands!

Using an actual prefab speaker cone instead of construction paper...? Heh, cute... I guess... if you're into presets.

[Tj Shredder]

Will Vital blow out all these expensive wavetable synths? Possible I‘d say...

[spray14]

Why doesn't Zebra fit in this list? I always thought it was a WT synth from v1.
Also no Fathom or Phaseplant.
Is it because they are semimodular? I guess thst would make it harder to compare.
James

[SLiC]

Will Vital blow out all these expensive wavetable synths? Possible I‘d say...

Definitely for value!

It gives Pigments, Serum and Massive X a good challenge even if it wasn't free....

[biscuitdough]

Why doesn't Zebra fit in this list? I always thought it was a WT synth from v1.
Also no Fathom or Phaseplant.
Is it because they are semimodular? I guess thst would make it harder to compare.
James

They've been discussed at length, but OP will only add them to the top post if the little survey is filled out. I guess nobody bothered.