Rick Rubin on AI (& now Graeme Revell, too)

[revvy]

Sure, for something simple like classical music, but for something rich, complex and emotional like EBM, how does it fare?

[Bunny_boy]

Yes, I think that you can tell pretty quickly. I gave Suno instructions to write a Bach style piano sonata, and this is the result. I can hear that this is AI after only a few seconds in. YMMV and all that.

What are those lyrics!!!

[BONES]

Yes, I think that you can tell pretty quickly. I gave Suno instructions to write a Bach style piano sonata, and this is the result. I can hear that this is AI after only a few seconds in. YMMV and all that.

How can you tell? How does it differ from something that might have been created in a DAW, for instance? How much time did you spend trying to make it better?

[BONES]

Why would anyone that hadn't already caught this disease, wanting what you're sayng to be the truth, care about what you assert was excellent from any standpoint?

Then how about you explain the two million views and 12,000 comments? Have a go, try and rationalise that with your opinions on AI.

Someone we equally don't know from Adam was fooled as to whether or not examples were done by composers vs LLM.

Not one someone, 12,000 of them. How much evidence has to stack up before you accept reality?

And we're supposed to look at this and see "classically trained" as if to lend some authority to your story.

"Classically trained" could refer to the guy behind it, the one doing the prompting. Or it could be bullshit but I can't see how that affects listeners' connection with the music, one way or the other.

No composer has any use for this

Graeme Revell does and he's someone with way more credibility than any of us.

the idea is you have ideas of your own and work them out.

That's it, exactly - you have an idea, you explain it as best you can to the AI and it creates something for you. If it's not right the first time, you refine or restate your prompt a few times until you've worked it out. Standard creative process. It would be perfect for the pastiche jazzy collages of yours I was listening to earlier.

The person that had use for Suno "creating" classical music has an agenda.

Doesn't everyone who creates art have an agenda? What's the point of art without it?

"Suno creating" is a corruption of language. It does no such thing.

Of course it does, the evidence of it is everywhere, creation being "the act or process of bringing something into existence".

[Mike777]

I think of AI creating, arranging, or producing music as simply an alternative to having musicians to do the same thing. With the results sometimes low quality, sometimes high quality, for both AI and humans.

It's just a machine making music. Piano rolls (sheet of paper with holes) can make a 'play' piano play by itself. This was invented in the what the 1800's?

When synths first came out it wasn't long before someone designed a step sequencer to have the synth 'play itself' based on a sequence. Same concept as a piano roll.

[eassae]

You can tell right away in the So Hollow song by the weird phase/ringing issues that AI vocals always have. This happens in all the parts but for some reason it always is prevalent in the vocals. We'll see if it gets better in the future—probably will.

I don't really see what's "over." I don't think AI in music will be going anywhere soon, but people will still continue to actually create music for the foreseeable future. You are right that people do seem to be connecting with the So Hollow song—or maybe it's bunch of dudes in India paid by SunUdio to say nice things?"—mainstream music has become less complex over the past 20+ years, and it was already being glue compressed into a gelatinous homogeneity—AI will probably just squeeze out the last fraction of dynamics till all that most people will hear is a giant, fat sausage of irrelevance. We're pretty much there already. But again, some people are still making good music. It's still kind of sad though—I remember the line in Pump up the Volume, "…all the great themes have been used up, and turned into theme parks." I think the people using AI have bought into that idea fully, but cynicism like AI is anti-life—anti-real progress not just technological. There's no doubt though that engineering endless, ever prodigious gewgaws is one of humans skills.

BTW, are you a Kiwi?

[chagzuki]

The Let Babylon Burn song is a great example. Assuming they are legit, you just have to read the comments to see how it connects with people. So Hollow has 23 million views and more than 12,000 comments. It's over, people, time to accept the fact.

The comments are very peculiar, I'm assuming there's some kind of bot mass spamming going on here because the video has some of that old Will Smith pasta AI surreality going on which makes it clear that there's no real person performing, yet almost every comment addresses the 'artist' as if he's a real person.

I'm sure lots of people like this track, but I would take the comments will a pinch of salt:
"Your voice. Your presence. You don’t just sing this song - you have become a heaven blessed conduit for all the emotions contained in its lyrics, its melody, its message, its yearning power. A rare gift you have; to hear, understand and through music, communicate such truths to all of us."

On top of that, "You touch me heart" etc. sounds fairly ridiculous, surely even the less discerning listener might detect something a bit hokey going on? But then who knows, because apparently people love Katie Perry and, er, all those other ones that I forget the name of.

[ghettosynth]

Yes, I think that you can tell pretty quickly. I gave Suno instructions to write a Bach style piano sonata, and this is the result. I can hear that this is AI after only a few seconds in. YMMV and all that.

How can you tell? How does it differ from something that might have been created in a DAW, for instance? How much time did you spend trying to make it better?

Oh, I think that it's pretty glaring. Like I say, it jumped out at me after only a few seconds of listening. I'm not sure what techniques one could use to improve that aspect, it's fairly straightforward as these things go.

[jancivil]

I think of AI creating, arranging, or producing music as simply an alternative to having musicians to do the same thing. With the results sometimes low quality, sometimes high quality, for both AI and humans.

It's an alternative in the strict sense, but for those who don't care about the human element or the fact that a human worth dealing with responds in real time to what the others are playing.

I have not had this low quality result. And I have high standards. None of my results are replaceable by a machine with absolutely no capacity for thought. Today I rarely call on anybody; when I do I get genuine creativity. If you can't get this, you're just severely lacking the interest or being willfully ignorant.

It's just a machine making music. Piano rolls (sheet of paper with holes) can make a 'play' piano play by itself. This was invented in the what the 1800's?

You can't have arrived at a stupider equivalence. Did the player piano punch its own piano roll on the card?

You're being quite stupid. I don't know whether to chalk this up to naiveity (this is the more charitable guess) knowing fuckall about music-making or the intellectual dishonesty of someone trying to persuade people of some total horseshit. I'm pretty sure you're a shill with exactly enough sketchy information to be a salesman who has to believe this may be persuasive to the unsuspecting victim/mark. It isn't to anybody with any experience for real with music.

It's gotten ridiculous. I don't think you're particularly lacking the brain power to do better; if this presentation is anything it's deliberate so I'm gomg to address you as an adult. This is all so very corrupt.

[VOODOO U]

The AI drummer also doesn't just suddenly fall off of his stool mid practice because it was at just that moment that the impact of that many beers hit and broke the frame of delusion that he could handle his drink. Yes, that's actually happened, I'm willing to bet that I'm not alone in that experience. For the curious, no, I was not the drummer in question. In fact, I'm not a drummer at all even though I am perfectly willing to pretend to be one if there is either a kit, or a star synare available.

I fell off my drum stool once when i was in this punk-rock band and the idiot lead singer decided to do a show wearing this stupud looking mask without telling anybody. He took it out of a bag, put it on and started going ape shit. I couldn't drum and actually fell off the stool clenching my stomach i was laughing so hard.
If you can imagine lying on the floor looking up while laughing hysterically and seeing the band standing there staring at you including this idiot still with that stupid mask on, well...i couldn't stop laughing.
God I miss drumming.

[BONES]

The comments are very peculiar, I'm assuming there's some kind of bot mass spamming going on here because the video has some of that old Will Smith pasta AI surreality going on which makes it clear that there's no real person performing, yet almost every comment addresses the 'artist' as if he's a real person.

Yeah, it definitely feels suss but you'd have to create a lot of fake accounts to pull it off. Surely YT would notice? But if you look at the comments on any sappy pop video they tend to be sickeningly similar (I just looked up a few).

Oh, I think that it's pretty glaring.

But you can't quantify it? That makes me wonder if it's not just simple confirmation bias.

It's an alternative in the strict sense, but for those who don't care about the human element or the fact that a human worth dealing with responds in real time to what the others are playing.

Well, that definitely describes me. The music is about the music, not about me.

I have not had this low quality result. And I have high standards. None of my results are replaceable by a machine with absolutely no capacity for thought.

Oh, I think they very definitely are. You're displaying incredible arrogance to think there is anything special about you (or anyone else). The human condition is eminently reproducible digitally.

Today I rarely call on anybody; when I do I get genuine creativity. If you can't get this, you're just severely lacking the interest or being willfully ignorant.

Or you're getting creativity from elsewhere or, Dog forbid, you're using your own creativity.

You can't have arrived at a stupider equivalence. Did the player piano punch its own piano roll on the card?

You have arrived at a similarly "stupider" response, given that the AI needs a human to direct it. You've made it a much better equivalence than I'd have given it credit for originally.

It isn't to anybody with any experience for real with music.

What isn't? You're just ranting incoherently now. I have more than 60 years experience with "real music", thank you very much, and I'm pretty sure that "it", whatever "it" is, is to me.

You seem to think the only valid thing is making music but thousands of times more people listen to music than make it, so how it's made, who it is made my, these things are unimportant in the greater scheme of things. They might matter to you, personally, but they are not relevant in the wider world. If people enjoy listening to AI generated music, then it's a completely valid process. You don't have to like it any more than you are required to like Justin Bieber but you can't stick your head in the sand and pretend it isn't at least as good a any other music out there. And even if it's not right now, you have to know that it will be next year.

[ghettosynth]

Oh, I think that it's pretty glaring.

But you can't quantify it? That makes me wonder if it's not just simple confirmation bias.

You can't tell?

[eassae]

San Diego Comicon bans A.I. Art.

Hopefully more backlash in the music world will come soon(Shout out to Bandcamp): https://news.artnet.com/art-world/san-d ... rt-2739389

"Earlier this month, artists began speaking out against the policy on social media. Karla Ortiz, an artist who has worked on films in the Marvel Cinematic Universe and is a plaintiff in an artist lawsuit against several A.I. companies, was among those to condemn the policy on BlueSky. She called it “a disgrace” to allot “valuable space to GenAi users to show slop right NEXT to actual artists who worked their asses off to be there.”"

[ghettosynth]

San Diego Comicon bans A.I. Art.

Hopefully more backlash in the music world will come soon(Shout out to Bandcamp): https://news.artnet.com/art-world/san-d ... rt-2739389

[ghettosynth]

The AI drummer also doesn't just suddenly fall off of his stool mid practice because it was at just that moment that the impact of that many beers hit and broke the frame of delusion that he could handle his drink. Yes, that's actually happened, I'm willing to bet that I'm not alone in that experience. For the curious, no, I was not the drummer in question. In fact, I'm not a drummer at all even though I am perfectly willing to pretend to be one if there is either a kit, or a star synare available.

I fell off my drum stool once when i was in this punk-rock band and the idiot lead singer decided to do a show wearing this stupud looking mask without telling anybody. He took it out of a bag, put it on and started going ape shit. I couldn't drum and actually fell off the stool clenching my stomach i was laughing so hard.
If you can imagine lying on the floor looking up while laughing hysterically and seeing the band standing there staring at you including this idiot still with that stupid mask on, well...i couldn't stop laughing.
God I miss drumming.

I miss performing with others as well. I don't miss performing, per se. Well, that is, I don't like playing solo much. I just can't be bothered any more. I don't even want to load a small combo amp into the car, let alone dealing with the sexless marriage that is a band.