KVR Audio

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 3:43 pm

jeanmariecannie wrote: You'll have to realise that FL Studio is mainly an online product that has to be downloaded.

Until last year that downloadable installer was about 20mb and the last installers are 30 mb (about 10mb of which are samples).

It's not really realistic to compare those sounds to soundbanks that can be 30mb or more for just the samples.

I agree and I think that is entirely fair. So far as I can see from my experience of Reason and (small) experience with FL, they are VERY different programmes with completely different strengths. Reason's soundbanks are, for me, its prime asset.

In the case of FL, there were other aspects that I very much liked (once I recovered from the initial culture shock of the look and feel being so different, I found FL lots of fun to work in, bordering on adictive

. But as you will have noted above, I did have some problems with the demo version I tried...)

The original point of this thread was a comparrison between the two, which has drawn out a whole load of interesting points. But I agree that we can't compare like with like here! It's like trying to compare Miles Davis with Led Zeppelin... both were great, but how could anyone quantify that?

FL and Reason are both tools for making music. Both have been used well by some people, and badly by others. Speaking of which there are some great demo songs in FL (although my CPU couldn;t cope with a couple of them) which prove this point.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:47 pm

Found in Dan Engelbrecht's .plan file:

:-)

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:53 pm

For example the RV7000 reverb, DrRex, Scream4, Maelstrom

FL's reverb (from Ultrafunk) shits over Reason's one, DrRex.. can it even SLICE things? I guess not, they want to sell Recycle. FL's slicer can, and can time-stretch slices, and lots of things DrRex can't do. FL has several distortion effects as well (can't compare, never tried theirs, just like you never tried FL's), and you won't find a Sytrus in Reason (but granted, Sytrus isn't free).

The Reason samples consistently sounded richer and more organic than sfz

If it doesn't sound like the original soundfont was meant to, then Reason is buggy, it's as simple. Richer? Maybe it doesn't translate filter properties correctly.

sfz/soundfonts registered a significantly higher CPU hit than when substituting Reason/NN-XT

SFZ (and FL as well at rendering time) uses an interpolation method of a quality that NN-XT can only dream of, of course it comes with a CPU cost.

Sidhu · Post by **Sidhu** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:54 pm

headquest wrote: FL and Reason are both tools for making music. Both have been used well by some people, and badly by others.

What he saz.

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:00 pm

sidhu wrote:
headquest wrote: FL and Reason are both tools for making music. Both have been used well by some people, and badly by others.
What he saz.

The voice of reason (small "r"). :-)

ceenda · Post by **ceenda** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:05 pm

To those of you who are having problems with large soundfonts in fruity and who still want to use FLStudio's own player (for slide functionality, etc.), I heartily recommend ESC (www.extranslator.com). I bought it to rip my AKAI CDs, but you can also take large SF2 files, and it will split them by preset into individual SF2s (much easier to load the instruments per-instance than load an huge soundfont with tons of presets you might not even want). Much easier than trying to do it by hand. However, you can still do the same thing for free by using SynthFont Viena.

I had heard that there was some talk about licensing René's SFZ to make a new soundfont player for FL Studio. It seems that the company who make the FL Studio Soundfont player have just dissapeared completely and now the player is totally unsupported. Which is a shame, really. As it's good a quality player, with some fruity-only features.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:20 pm

tony tony chopper wrote: FL's reverb (from Ultrafunk) shits over Reason's one

Perhaps you're thinking of the original RV7 that shipped with versions 1 and 2? The new RV7000 that was given to registered user in v.2.5 is in a different league from the fruity reverb, and I've tried both. You admit you've not tried Scream, which means you've also not tried RV7000 which appeared in the same 2.5 update.

It's not a good idea to suggest that the reverb you use "shits all over" one that you've never tried or even heard.

The room simulations and multitap delay in RV7000 are also very good indeed, as attested by the rave review in Sound on Sound which compared it favourably against hardware units.

FL has several distortion effects as well (can't compare, never tried theirs, just like you never tried FL's)

Actually you are wrong again. If you had been following the plot you would know that I have tried the FL demo in some detail (between crashes). I thought the FL distortion units are fair at what they do. But they don't do the cabinet simulations, etc, that you can get with Scream4.

Again, if you can't be bothered to try it out yourself, at least read the SOS review before trolling ...

The Reason samples consistently sounded richer and more organic than sfz
If it doesn't sound like the original soundfont was meant to, then Reason is buggy, it's as simple. Richer? Maybe it doesn't translate filter properties correctly.

What are you talking about? You clearly didn't read my post properly. The comparisson was between playing the soundfont in sfz (a VST soundfont player in case you've never heard of or tried that, either) inside one of those new-fangled sequencer things called Tracktion. Reason didn't come into that at all!! However I did an A/B - i.e. a comparrison of like for like - with Reason's own multisamples played within Reason, which sounded significantly better.

So in case you're still not following the plot, I wasn't playing the soundfonts within Reason during this comparrison. So there was no excuse there for you to have another attack on a program you admit you haven't even tried.

SFZ (and FL as well at rendering time) uses an interpolation method of a quality that NN-XT can only dream of, of course it comes with a CPU cost.

Surprising that Reason's NN-XT samples sounded so much better in that case.

Of course, having not tried it yourself, you really don't know what you're talking about.

Throughout this thread I have repeatedly been curteous and reiterated that I have a lot of respect for FL, its users, and have heard great music made in it. So there really is no excuse for you to reply in the way that you did. You not only sound like a troll, but you take credibility AWAY from FL by giving the impression that its users are a bunch or arseholes.

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:28 pm

so you compare a soundbank in SFZ with *another* soundbank in reason? I just don't get it.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:37 pm

Really? Then I'd best explain more clearly...

I compared "like for like" samples, accepting that soundfonts are a form of sample and that NN-XT's orkester sound library is also a sample collection.

So I compared the "flute" samples in sfz/titanic with those in Reason's Orkester soundbank. Same with trumpets, strings and grand piano.

I was listening to see which - to my ears - most accurately reflected the sound of the acoustic instruments they would provide sampled alternatives for in my own compositions.

I have a fairly good knowledge of what the real instruments sound like. Actually I have a music degree and studied as a postgraduate at the Royal College of Music, London, so I have heard plenty of real flutes, trumpets, pianos and strings in my time

The conclusion was that - to me - the Orkester soundbank of samples that ships with Reason sound much more authentic. I wouldn't compare it to the Vienna Symphonic Library, obviously, but for the price you pay for Reason it's nice to have such a high quality collection of sounds to use straight out of the box.

ceenda · Post by **ceenda** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:42 pm

nonono, I think what was being hinted as was that the banks 'themselves' are not identical.

Yes, Orkester is recorded professionally, and the sample quality itself is very high.

However, _any_ free soundfont available on the net is probably put together from different soundfonts recorded in a smorgasbord kind of way.

It would only be fair to, say, convert a well known sample CD to SF2 and import it into both players to see which one plays the same soundfont 'better'.

The point was the playback quality, not the quality of the originating samples. And lets not beat about the bush, the quality of alot of free soundfonts is not high.

But that said, it's a great library (Orkester) to get bundled in. One of Reason's main points, I think.

tony tony chopper · Post by **tony tony chopper** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:48 pm

So I compared the "flute" samples in sfz/titanic with those in Reason's Orkester soundbank. Same with trumpets, strings and grand piano.

it just doesn't make any sense

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:49 pm

Yes, I dare say that the soundfont format is a very capable one, and deservedly popular.

Once we start talking about "buying" sample CDs though we are going away from a direct comparrison between what comes with Reason out of the box, and what comes included with FL (or is available as a free download).

My experience of soundfonts is only slightly better than "tony tony chopper"'s experience with Reason, I admit. But I believe that the Titanic soundfonts is one of the better freebies around.

The grand piano I loaded was actually from a different source. It was rated at 10/10 on the site where I found it.

RawTheory · Post by **RawTheory** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:29 pm

Reason is the most amazing piece of software i've ever used. IMO the cv routing is the best aspect of the program,...limitless. But trying to get Reason mixes to sound huge by itself can never aproach what you can do when you bounce Remix channels to audio in a major DAW like ProTools and audio process the sound with some good Effects plugins. Absolutely no comparison.

ceenda · Post by **ceenda** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:48 pm

I have to admit, I decided to download the demo for Reason 2.5 and give it another go. The NNXT is pretty impressive. Easy to input a soundbank or soundfont and adjust keymapping all from the same interface.

However, I just can't navigate that piano roll at all.

I must be doing something wrong (and there's no entry for it in the Help file at all). For some reason, using the Snap button doesn't snap notes that you draw either.

That said, I've always liked the virtual rack. It's fun to see all the connections and wire up and route Sends, Returns etc.

I must spend more time on reason. Though I don't know how well it handles more Orchestral compositions. (I don't mean Orkester as in Orchestral sounds, but more freeform musical styles. All the 'orchestral' demos seem to be 4/4 pop-soundtrack style)

>v^<^^ · Post by **>v^<^^** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:20 pm

Reason is a nice collection of instruments and effects that work together nicely. They tacked on a simple sequencer to boot.

FL Studio is an outstanding, full-blown sequencer. They've included lots of instruments and effects as well as the ability to add pretty much any 3rd party instrument or effects.

The two apps are very, very different. They both call themselves "soft studios", but I personally don't place them in the same category at all. It just depends on what you're looking for. Do you want a collection of instruments/effects to use along with your existing sequencer? Or do you want a sequencer?

Fruity or Reason