the analog warmth myth

[Amberience]

[To the tune of "Panama Red" by the New Riders of the Purple Sage]

Analog Warmth,
Analog Warmth...
He'll blow your woofers
With his cool waveformth!

Analog Warmth,
Analog Warmth,
On his big black Moog Modular
He comes freezin' your track.

Bet your woman's gonna morph
With ol'... Analog Warmth!

[rockin1]

Maybe someday digital developers will stop trying to emulate, and head straight for the gold? Stop trying to clone or emulate and make things sound good.

Isn't this exactly what Urs is already doing?

[Amberience]

Hey, there are Sewer People living in Russia. They can't speak a language, but they do like cheese.

....

Now, if one other person in this thread believes me, then it makes it true.

[mark77]

feltch academy, hi. please dont get me started on this. i assume you meant your comments about your JP8 as a joke and in a sarcastic way. If the world was full of people like you then there'd be no need to advance anything, no need for technology, etc. I mean you're talking about equipment that is 30 years old and trying to convince everyone with your purist thinking that that is the best that synthesis has to offer to the world, even by today's standards. See, i see things like this.. there are people like you who dont have enough musical talent to be financially successful at it and so you occupy all that spare time with things that you CAN do.. such as recite biased and subjective opinions about things you are passionate about. SO.. while you are spending your time with that, other poeple out there (such as the sound guys from the movie matrix) actually use absynth 2/3 and use it EXTENSIVELY for one of the biggest and most famous/successful movies of recent times. See.. it's good enough for them... (and i didnt hear any movie fans complaining about the sounds in the movie) yet it's not good enough for you, because your jupiter sounds better? do you realise how ridiculous you sound? see i think everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it's the way you say it. You are implying that the best there ever was and wil be has already happened, and you have it, and dont bother trying anything new coz it will never be as good as your jupiter 8. oh and i've heard comparisons between albino and the jupiters and while not identical they do come REMOTELY close... and to raise my point yet again.. the end user/listeners dont give a shit about what u use.

[omo]

mark77 (Mark?) I havn't invested into reading the whole thread but I have to agree with your main points.

It seems to me that with technological advance in the industry and overall growth of our living standards lots of boys and girls got a chance to do something they've been dreaming for ages - to be a star or at least have their voice or music coming out of speakers. Most of them have no serious musical background and/or experience with recording/mixing equipment. Yes, multitrackers and effects are now very affordable and many of them are great for top quality production but the thing is they don't know what to do with it. There are more and more youngsters out there who haven't ever touched an old analog synth or a compressor. See, even far not all professional musicians write great music and songs - it also takes talant. So what we have here is thousands of folks who are just too inexperienced and, frankly, many dumb who try to find the reason of their badly sounding production somewhere on unaffordable territories - like "oh, it must be absynth sucks, I need Jupiter8 and it'll be perfect". I do not want to offend anyone and I myself might well be in the same ligue, but it is just my honest opinion. Even a brouther of mine who is a complete idiot in music and can't tune a guitar properly now makes records and has got Cubase. Its reall experienced professionals or hobbyst who really benefits in this virtuall world of plugs and sequencers - they know the real price. But then again, many of them don't explore new ways and it is perfectly understanable - it takes ages to gain experience and feeling on your instruments and not everyone has time and will to jump into a completely new territory. And then off course there's fashion and all that works around it including those snob acting engineers and musicians.

To really learn to hear things and to make own ways of atchieving desired sound an engineer needs to master his use of equalizer - the most important piece of equipment available to him.

BTW, I know a person who made a couple of hits using an internal sampler and SIR on his SBLive! about 5 years ago. Can't tell you what songs those were but you've all heard them and seen at least one video on MTV. And it also sold huge. Not that it sounded great but taking into account the genre it was a well done project. He still uses Cubase and things like Karlette (or whatever it's called) and internal EQ...

[Meffy]

Aw man, are you a skunk or a bat?

:-D

A skunk who was once rated as a top Zener card reader and predictor by a major university. [no jive] They were wrong. I'm neither prescient nor telepathic. My test results seemed strongly to indicate that I was, though.

However, I am very skilled in the use of Zener diodes!

Andrew: =@.o= My, how the NRPS have changed since my days!

[jmh]

Hilarious Keep it going... and keep yourself stuck on that "the end user doesn't give a shit" point Maybe, just MAYBE, one day you'll at least get to compare some higher end expensive gear in a good listening environment, with the M-Audio cards and the cheap plugins, and just MAYBE you'll hear a difference...

It's just weird that people without the experience stick to the oddest points that are practically unrelated to the issue to back up their opinions... if you have the ears, the experience will teach you something some day - hopefully.

Regards,

JMH

[Feltch Academy]

Dear mark,
Thanks for the insulting and closed minded reply.
I think you misunderstood me. I’m all for progress. I think that my ideal studio would have the latest digital technology and the best (and also the latest) analogue technology. I am not a purist. I have simply noticed that analogue synths (and compressors and eq) sound better (noticeably better) than their digital equivalents. (at least the ones I can afford).
I would love to get rid of my synths because the bloody things are old and go wrong. But I keep them because they sound cool.

You seem to think that because the JP8 is 20 years old that somehow that means it is out of date and therefore of no use and should be thrown away. But what you obviously don’t realise is that the JP8 is still cutting edge - because there has never been more advanced analogue synths (generally) than that of the 80’s. It is also an indisputable fact that an analogue sound source must be of a better quality in some respects, because of the purity of the signal at the quantum level. If you zoom into a sample you get blocks. Zoom into my JP8 signal and you can just keep going, it will always be a smooth line. (I accept that this is a very anal point – I make it to highlight one way in which analogue IS more advanced than digital – of course things would change with quantum computing).

In the 80s-90s The big manufacturers all switched to digital technology. Why? Because it’s simpler to manufacture, it has a superior signal to noise ratio (for like for like component cost) and is inherently more flexible. Plus they found they could sell lots and lots of digital keyboards because everyone was impressed by the sound of a grand piano and you press this button here and a choir comes out! Woo! And OMG! You can sample other peoples music and use it in your own. Blinding!

Analogue synths represent a somewhat lost technology, not an inferior one. If Roland kept up research into analogue circuits, I’m sure you would want their latest offering because it would sound amazing.

I’m not the one with the closed mind holding back progress. I have an open mind. I just state the facts as I see (or hear) them.
Yes the architecture and the flexibility of Absynth is huge compared to a JP8. But for the sounds I want, the JP8 gets me results more easily and sounds noticeably better than Absynth.


You mention that in “The Matrix” They used digital technology to make the music and manipulate sound – I believe they used Pro Tools. Good for them. The Royal Academy of Music has just spent quarter of a million (pounds) on their new mastering suite. It has all the latest digital technology and a brand new Analogue Mixer. Big Deal. I can name plenty of cutting edge music makers who use Analogue synths and Analogue outboard in their production (as well as Digital).. Nice.
And on the subject of the matrix – all of the sound effect sound sources were analogue. So nuts to you!

PS. analogue synths sound better than digital ones by the way. including vsti

PPS. I thought the music in the Matrix was crap.

[Kingston]

Maybe someday digital developers will stop trying to emulate, and head straight for the gold? Stop trying to clone or emulate and make things sound good.

Isn't this exactly what Urs is already doing?

There're two ways to answer this. It actually demonstrates my point extremely well.

If you mean Urs the developer who hangs around here, then yes. I would count him among the fortunate few. I doubt anyone will disagree either.

If you mean urs the EQ plugin company, then hell no!
They place their bets on the average joe who is easily fooled with a pretty UI. They sound perfectly average if you skip the chrome.

[omo]

If you mean urs the EQ plugin company, then hell no!
They place their bets on the average joe who is easily fooled with a pretty UI. They sound perfectly average if you skip the chrome.

Glad to see someone understanding the hype. I totally agree althou I actually find their GUI very bad and difficult to operate.

[bmanic]

BTW, I know a person who made a couple of hits using an internal sampler and SIR on his SBLive! about 5 years ago. Can't tell you what songs those were but you've all heard them and seen at least one video on MTV. And it also sold huge. Not that it sounded great but taking into account the genre it was a well done project. He still uses Cubase and things like Karlette (or whatever it's called) and internal EQ...

.. SIR, 5 years ago.. I don't think so.

- bManic

[Hypertone]

I'm no luddite, but there are some things that analog just does better than software. The Eqs in my analog mixer sound better than anything digital I've tried so far. The oscillators (DCO even!)in my MKS-70 have a richness and sheen that I have not heard in a vsti.

Digital gear was never introduced because it sounds better, it was introduced because it's cheaper to produce. Each format has it's advantages. A Studer analog deck will sound better than a DAW, but a DAW is more powerful than any analog piece of gear. Most people don't own 20 analog compressors, but you can use 20 vst compressors no problem. Does a vst compressor sound like a $2000 analog compressor? Not exactly.

[Feltch Academy]

I'm no luddite, but there are some things that analog just does better than software. The Eqs in my analog mixer sound better than anything digital I've tried so far. The oscillators (DCO even!)in my MKS-70 have a richness and sheen that I have not heard in a vsti.

Digital gear was never introduced because it sounds better, it was introduced because it's cheaper to produce. Each format has it's advantages. A Studer analog deck will sound better than a DAW, but a DAW is more powerful than any analog piece of gear. Most people don't own 20 analog compressors, but you can use 20 vst compressors no problem. Does a vst compressor sound like a $2000 analog compressor? Not exactly.

I'm with this guy

[jmh]

<- I'm with stupid

Regards,

JMH

[Samb]

It is also an indisputable fact that an analogue sound source must be of a better quality in some respects, because of the purity of the signal at the quantum level. If you zoom into a sample you get blocks. Zoom into my JP8 signal and you can just keep going, it will always be a smooth line. (I accept that this is a very anal point – I make it to highlight one way in which analogue IS more advanced than digital – of course things would change with quantum computing).

Very anal and very (indisputably in fact ) WRONG